Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz 
Guest:  Entertainment Marketing Veteran & Former CBS Films Chief Terry Press
Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:02):

There's a little-known part of Hollywood that most people are not aware of known as the audience test preview. The recently released book, Audienceology, reveals this for the first time. Our podcast series, Don't Kill the Messenger, brings this book to life, taking a peek behind the curtain. And now, join author and entertainment research expert, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:23):

I know you've all heard the term horse whisperer or dog whisperer, but in our industry, there are a few people, and I mean only a few people that have been dubbed movie whisperers. My guest today, Terry Press, is indeed a movie whisperer. She is an accomplished and award-winning movie marketing expert. With a career spanning several decades, Terry has held top positions at studios like Disney, Dreamworks, and CBS Films. Her passion for branding, publicity, strategy, media, digital promotions, positioning, have elevated the success of, I can't even say, countless films and her innovative marketing strategies have caught the attention of titans, including Steven Spielberg, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Sam Mendes, and so many more. Terry, I am so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you. I don’t know how we're going to get through this, but we will. But we will. We will because we have a, I don’t know, a shorthand and a way of assuming that others know what we're talking about.

Terry Press (01:55):

<laugh>. But when I think about some of the previews we've gotten through together, this will be a cakewalk.

Kevin Goetz (02:01):

We've been friends for many years and we started as colleagues when I was just a little pisher at NRG and you were a publicist at Disney. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I want to go back further, a lot further to what formed the woman you are today. And when I say that I call you a movie whisperer and I think that is one of the most elevated and sincerest compliments that I can offer. What was young Terry like growing up in the Bay Area in terms of dreaming about the business? Because you have a certain kind of fantasy and a nostalgia and a reverence for old movies and for and a great understanding and vocabulary.

Terry Press (02:47):

I had depression-era parents who had gone to the movies four times a week. Movies were a part of their shared dynamic. They were something they made us watch at a very sort of critical age, I would say around 11 or 12. My father would take me to see like 16 millimeter prints in high school gymnasiums of Marx Brothers movies and all kinds of thirties comedies. And for whatever reason, and this sounds ridiculous, those movies are my drug. I have never taken a drug, but I have a feeling that what I feel watching Astaire and Rodgers dance is as close to a drug as I'm going to get. Let's just go back and say that I came to movies and they were my everything. I spent literally, and I have friends who I have been friends with now for many, many, many years. But like I started working at Landmark when I was like 20, writing the calendars. Like I could write.

Kevin Goetz (04:03):

You are a marvelous writer.

Terry Press (04:05):

Right. My father was an English teacher. Yeah. But I also want to say that I had parents who said, if this is what you love, then you need to go to film school.

Kevin Goetz (04:15):

Why did your father take you to thirties movies? What was it about?

Terry Press (04:18):

Because he loved them. He loved W.C. Fields.

Kevin Goetz (04:20):

Did he take your sisters, too?

Terry Press (04:22):

I was the oldest. I'm still the oldest. I just took to it <laugh>. They spoke to me on a level. And he could see that yes, he could see that. 

Kevin Goetz (04:31):

He could recognize that in you.

Terry Press (04:32):

Yes. But on the other hand, they also now, in retrospect, I think to myself, I cannot believe that they would take me to some of the stuff they took me to when I was 12. Like Cabaret and like movies that I would see later and laugh and be like, who takes a 12-year-old?

Kevin Goetz (04:47):

Parents that are aware.

Terry Press (04:49):

Parents that are movie literate and parents that want to expose you. Exactly, to what.

Kevin Goetz (04:55):

Did you do that as a mom with Gracie and Ethan?

Terry Press (04:57):

I did, but not as successfully because my children have had a phone in their hands since the knockdown drag-down fights ended about getting a phone. But you know what, it made me happy one time my son asked for a Criterion subscription for Christmas. And I literally thought, this is like the biggest win for me ever. And so the very fact that he will say, I watched this and what I need to remember is that when I'm talking about films that impacted my life, I lived in my head in the movies. So, I really felt like I was going to get married like Maria does in The Sound of Music. I really lived in my head in the movies. For my children, the movies that spoke to me, which were thirties, forties, fifties, American movies for them, those are the movies of the eighties, nineties, right. And 2000, that's their nostalgia. That's their vintage, that's their nosalgic. Right. Those are their classics. Right. So like when my son or my daughter would come and say, oh mom, mom, I just watched, you know, my God, I just saw this movie. Have you ever heard of this? And it'd be like Breakfast Club. I would have to really stop myself and think to myself.

Kevin Goetz (06:08):

St. Elmo’s Fire.

Terry Press (06:09):

Is some, this is the equivalent of someone asking me about Top Hat. So I have to be patient and say, yes, I have seen The Breakfast Club.

Kevin Goetz (06:18):

And you get to say I worked on it.

Terry Press (06:19):

<laugh>. Right? Right. And in a lot of these cases, like it's really tragic at this point that there's like many times where they'll come and say, I saw this, blah blah, blah. Have you ever heard of it? And I think, yeah, I worked on it. But like, you just don't want to be that person who's doing the movie version of I walked, you know, five miles in the snow. It's, I'm like, okay, yes, I do know this, but I'm just happy they're consuming them at any level.

Kevin Goetz (06:44):

And they're both, I just want to say amazing kids that you and Andy raised. They really are. And Gracie's got a great successful job in e-sports in New York. And, and Ethan's got a new job and he's worked with me for…

Terry Press (06:58):

I know. How about that?

Kevin Goetz (06:59):

I love that.

Terry Press (06:59):

But you know what, he loved that job. He loved working.

Kevin Goetz (07:02):

Well, we want him back. 

Terry Press (07:03):

So, working for your company because he loved watching like the process. And he was a history major, so like he likes that kind of interaction. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> of learning things that are research-based or history based or have some Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. He, he loved.

Kevin Goetz (07:22):

Well, so Andy, as you know, your husband was a guest on this program. And when I look back on my guests a year later, he was probably the outlier because he and I really never worked together. And that's sort of the connective tissue of the entire podcast, is people I've worked with in some form or fashion in different areas of the business, whether they were post-production folks, or editors or whomever. But we had such a blast. And he has great stories because his father, of course was Arthur Marx and his grandpa was Groucho Marx. When you first met Andy and he told you he was Groucho's grandson and you grew up revering the Marx Brothers.

Terry Press (08:01):

I know, but he didn't. It was ironic. I didn't really put it together. Andy was a writer and I was a publicist. So we crossed each other's paths professionally. We kept saying, oh, we'll have lunch, we'll have dinner, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's so hilarious because remember I had dealt with him professionally and I never put it together that he was related to them.

Kevin Goetz (08:19):

Did you think he was cute right away?

Terry Press (08:21):

Yeah, he's very handsome. But it was interesting because we kept putting it off and then literally the first time we had dinner, which was a date, was the night of the OJ verdict. So it…

Kevin Goetz (08:35):

So you spent glued to the set.

Terry Press (08:37):

So it was like, by the way, there was no traffic getting to the restaurant because everyone was terrified and inside their houses. But when I told my mother and my sisters like, listen, I'm going out with this guy and he happens to be the grandson of Groucho Marx. My mother thought it was like some example of like self-actualization. I'm like, no, it just weirdly kismet.

Kevin Goetz (08:57):

So we share another thing, which is probably our favorite movie ever made, The Sound of Music. Yeah. I find it cinematic perfection is what I call it.

Terry Press (09:07):

I have a very close friend who I dragged, dragged to Austria so that we would go on the tour together. So did we. Okay. But I've been on it more than once. But the best for me was when Dreamworks made Shrek Two. Julie Andrews was the voice of the Queen. So, I was like, I'm going to get to meet Julie Andrews finally. And I literally burst into tears. Like it was like almost too much for me.

Kevin Goetz (09:36):

What is it about it that we find so deeply moving? Like, what is it? It's so great.

Terry Press (09:42):

Because it's about a lot of actual human emotions. She doesn't fit in.

Kevin Goetz (09:50):

Right. So she's the misfit.

Terry Press (09:51):

She doesn’t fit, she does not fit. She's the, she like, how do you solve a problem like Maria is like, how, what are we going to do with this girl because she's not really cut out to be a nun. And it's about finding your place. 

Kevin Goetz (10:00):

Oh, okay. And finding a family.

Terry Press (10:01):

And finding a family. And not only that, but she fixes a family. Everybody has complicated families, but she fixes their family. 

Kevin Goetz (10:10):

And falls in love with this curmudgeon.

Terry Press (10:11):

And she's like what Andy, like what all the screenwriters call a traveling angel. She comes in right, and fixes things. And then there's a part where she leaves. But then she comes back because her work isn't really done. But in the meantime, on the backdrop is something that never goes out of style, which is that Nazis are Nazis and horrible. So the combination of the historical epic of, and the tension going on.

Kevin Goetz (10:39):

The tension, yes.

Terry Press (10:39):

Right. And the sort of moving of the characters through music. You think the captain's, what a jerk. He's a big blowhard. Right. Blowing whistles and all this. But then it's like he can sing Edelweiss with a guitar and he's standing up to the Nazis. It's like, okay, dreamboat time. Right. 

Kevin Goetz (10:57):

And the Barronness, that poor thing didn't have a chance. 

Terry Press (11:00):

And it was also very well cast. The kids are perfect. Right? Are perfect. And it is an amazing book and score. And setting. And setting. Also, I recommend to everybody in the industry, if you want to really understand what the power of movies were culturally, study the distribution pattern for The Sound of Music.

Kevin Goetz (11:21):

Tell me, that's so interesting.

Terry Press (11:23):

The Sound of Music came out in roadshow. Right?

Kevin Goetz (11:26):

Explain what a roadshow is to our listeners.

Terry Press (11:29):

A roadshow was one theater in each a fancy destination kind of theater.

Kevin Goetz (11:35):

In major cities.

Terry Press (11:36):

In major cities. And it was almost like going to the theater, but it was an appointment. Like I went to see The Sound of Music in, I lived in the East Bay, but we went to San Francisco to see it. I still have the program that I got in 1965. It was just a magical thing, because it wasn't like, we're just going to the corner. 

Kevin Goetz (11:56):

Okay. So they did that with roadshow. 

Terry Press (11:58):

They did it with roadshow. It came out in 65 in roadshow. It played in roadshow for, and people have to look this up Because I don't want to misquote this. Yeah. It's okay. But essentially did not go to wide release for I think four and a half years. It grew. Yeah. Okay.

Kevin Goetz (12:19):

Yeah. Yeah.

Terry Press (12:20):

But it did not reach saturation. And think of how much money it made. It's pretty much a movie that never stopped speaking to somebody. 

Kevin Goetz (12:33):

Yeah. I always think when I tell people that, they write it off as, oh <laugh>, it's a gay man speaking about, you know, he loves a musical.

Terry Press (12:40):

A musical.

Terry Press (12:53):

But let me just say this, the movie saved 20th Century Fox. Okay. So Fox was selling off real estate and basically becoming much smaller in the wake of Cleopatra.

Kevin Goetz (13:06):

Which was a huge loser.

Terry Press (13:07):

Correct. 

Kevin Goetz (13:09):

It cost a fortune.

Terry Press (13:10):

The Sound of Music saved the studio. As much as I admire the buying power of gay men, <laugh> gay men going to musicals can't save the studio.

Kevin Goetz (13:18):

No. I mean, I don't mean that. I mean, when people say, what's your favorite movie of all time? And I've been asked that question so many times. I want to ask you, as being the movie whisperer that I called you, and I think you can own, you and I share a statement that is very germane to the notion of both loving The Sound of Music, which is why does this movie exist?

Terry Press (14:09):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (14:10):

And tell me about experiences where that has been obvious to you and where you recognized it as, I can't market this thing, this is unmarketable, but let's start with the positive first. Let's start with the things that were, wow, boy, does this movie have a reason to exist, and it's almost, and it's almost marketing itself if you will, because all I have to do is expose people to the beauty of it or the truth of it and let it speak. Was American Beauty like that?

Terry Press (14:43):

No, the reason for it to exist originally was that people thought the script was amazing. But what happened the year of American Beauty was Columbine.

Kevin Goetz (14:57):

Oh, is that the same year?

Terry Press (14:59):

Yes. Columbine happened. Right? And then I saw American Beauty.

Kevin Goetz (15:02):

And we need to peek at our own families and see what the hell is going on.

Terry Press (15:06):

Everyone in this country is saying, how does this happen? How do kids from the suburbs become so isolated and so that they would go and shoot people? Now we're just immune to it because it happens so often. But when Columbine happened, there was a real sense of how, these are suburban kids.

Kevin Goetz (15:28):

So what did you do specifically to hone in on as the chief messaging of that campaign?

Terry Press (15:34):

I pointed to that beneath the surface, people are increasingly isolated.

Kevin Goetz (15:41):

Did you sell it as a strict drama or did you sell it almost in that respect? Almost, almost like a thriller almost.

Terry Press (15:47):

No. Because the one thing American Beauty had was humor. Yeah. Kevin Spacey was funny. And so you want people to know this is dealing with a really serious subject, but there can always be humor in tragedy. You can sort of say all tragedy. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to a certain extent can have some humor to it. But we focused on the emotional messaging.

Kevin Goetz (16:11):

Underpinnings.

Terry Press (16:12):

Yes. I focused on the underpinnings. That's a good way of putting it.

Kevin Goetz (16:14):

What about getting it to an Academy Award? When you test screened it, did it screen well?

Terry Press (16:19):

Well, this is a good story. So Sam had never tested anything. It was his first movie. And you'd be shocked. I mean, you would not be shocked. But I always find it a little shocking how terrified directors are of the preview process. And for me, it's just information. You can use it, you can ignore it, but you ignore it at your peril. As much as I admire auteurs and people who think that they're making the movie for themselves, they're not. You are making something to be consumed. If you make it and no one sees it. Is that a win? I don't know. I look at selling movies very much the way I look at a political campaign, they're the same. I can work two years and it's going to come down to one night. And voting is emotional. Like, it can be. And movies are not detergent. Meaning I've taught many, many years of this. You are selling a product, it is still a product to be consumed. But unlike a car or detergent or anything that gets a do over…

Kevin Goetz (17:29):

What do you mean a do over?

Terry Press (17:30):

Meaning if Honda fucks up their marketing campaign for the year, they just can do another one. And it's like, okay, they can do a do-over. It's like, oh, this isn't working.

Kevin Goetz (17:39):

Oh. Because it's not one night of a launch.

Terry Press (17:41):

And it's not emotional.

Kevin Goetz (17:41):

And the shelf life is a lot longer.

Terry Press (17:43):

It's not as emotional. I have to show people how what I'm selling them connects to them. Whether it's on a personal level or the movie looks dazzling or they will be left out if they cannot talk about it with a group of people. Whatever the touch points are, you are crafting something you want messaging to make people say, yeah, that speaks to me.

Kevin Goetz (18:11):

So in Sam's case with American Beauty, you said he got to the screening.

Terry Press (18:14):

Yes. He gets to screening. I said, we're going to go outta town. We, we went to Palo Alto or Los Gatos, one of those Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I said, this is about suburban angst and I want to be in the suburbs when we test it. So, but I need smart people.

Kevin Goetz (18:29):

Right. Smart house, I call it.

Terry Press (18:31):

Yeah, smart. Yeah. Yeah. Smart house. People who will read reviews will care about it because at the time I, you know, Annette Benning and Kevin Spacey, you know are not Tom Cruise and Julia Roberts.

Kevin Goetz (18:42):

At that time.

Terry Press (18:43):

Right. So we went to the test and it was fine. It didn't test great. But during the focus group, I was standing in the back with Sam and a man said something about the relationship between Kevin Spacey and, what's her name? She's blonde. Yeah. But anyway, and talked about how relatable Kevin Spacey's thing with her was and his wife was sitting next to him and said, this is out loud in a group of like lots of people said, you've got to be kidding. Okay, what are you talking about? The two of them got in this fight about this. And then other people in the focus group started to discuss very passionately things about the movie. And I turned to Sam and said, the scores don't matter. This is what matters. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> People are going to leave this movie and stop in the lobby and have a fight. And that is going to carry word of mouth that you have to see it.

Kevin Goetz (20:03):

That’s great. So that's its reason to exist.

Terry Press (20:05):

That's its reason to exist. And quite frankly, we never tested it again because I was like, this is fricking, I said, this is the stuff you cannot buy.

Kevin Goetz (20:15):

Yeah. You know, I want to tell filmmakers who don't get the most stellar scores in the world that there's still a reason for your movie to exist if it doesn't. Because sometimes polarization is more important because there's almost a passion in your…

Terry Press (20:28):

That's correct. I remember this virulently, the women and the men set off against each other in this focus group. Okay.

Kevin Goetz (20:36):

So it was a gender thing. 

Terry Press (20:37):

Yeah, it was a gender thing. And like the women had a strong point of view. And I sat in the back of the theater and I literally said, we are home free.

Kevin Goetz (20:47):

I want to take a break. When we come back, I want to talk about the other side of movies that have a reason to exist in a different movie, Gladiator. We'll be back in a moment.

Announcer (21:01):

Get a glimpse into a secret part of Hollywood that few are aware of and that filmmakers rarely talk about in the new book Audienceology by Kevin Goetz. Each chapter is filled with never before revealed inside stories and interviews from famous studio chiefs, directors, producers, and movie stars, bringing the art and science of audienceology into focus. Audienceology, How Moviegoers Shape the Films We Love, from Tiller Press at Simon and Schuster. Available now.

Kevin Goetz (21:34):

So we are here with Terry Press. And Terry, I want to talk about another movie that you brought to an Oscar, Gladiator. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So tell me about that, because I kind of led you into American Beauty because I knew that it could not be an easy marketing task and you had to really dig to find its purpose. What was the purpose of Gladiator to exist? It's sword and sandals, which typically don't work. How did that one work so brilliantly?

Terry Press (22:05):

Well, it's a great movie for one thing. And what was interesting about Gladiator was I knew from testing the movie that if we could get women in, women loved it. Which you would think would go against the violence.

Kevin Goetz (22:18):

Same with 300 by the way. That's interesting you say that.

Terry Press (22:21):

Right? The violence and the sword and sandals and the sort of, you know, raw masculinity of it. Okay. But, uh…

Kevin Goetz (22:34):

What did they, what did women like about it so much?

Terry Press (22:36):

It's about a man who is avenging his, the death of his wife. Ah, okay. I literally remember saying it's a noble thing. No, I remember saying, people were like, should we cut the thing at the end where like, he carries around the little wooden memories, like of his son and his wife. And I said, we are never cutting something where a man is avenging the death of his family and goes around with little wooden figures of a woman and a boy. He carries them with him. I'm like, this will appeal to women. And it did. It was a story about a man who is broken by the death of his wife and child.

Kevin Goetz (23:21):

So its reason to exist was the central hero.

Terry Press (23:26):

I am fighting for the memory of my family.

Kevin Goetz (23:29):

Wow. So it's interesting also with Russell Crow. I heard when they cut his BAFTA speech kind of short, that they called you to try to calm him down backstage. 

Terry Press (23:41):

Well, he threw something at somebody. Right. But Beautiful Mind was a split between Dreamworks like we had co-writes with Universal and Dreamworks, but he had it flown into some rage. And I just said that you just lost the Oscar, so stop what you're doing.

Kevin Goetz (23:57):

Well you've been…

Terry Press (23:58):

I said if you keep going, the movie's going to lose. This movie can win, but you will not win.

Kevin Goetz (24:04):

Wow. And it happened, you know, your candor has been widely known. It's the thing I most respect about you. I actually have called you and publicly probably the best marketing person I've ever worked with. But for reasons, not just because you know the ins and outs of all the disciplines from research and creative advertising and publicity and media and digital and promotions and all of those areas. But because you understand truly the essence, the purpose, the intrinsic DNA of something. And you will go to any lengths to get to that truth. And I really relate to that, because that's my whole leitmotif. It's why I do what I do and why people want me to keep coming back. We are like unicorns in this business because people don't generally tell the truth. I'd like to think I do it with a little bit more kindness than you do <laugh>.

Terry Press (25:02):

I'm kind about it. I just don't, I just don't.

Kevin Goetz (25:06):

That was a joke, <laugh>.

Terry Press (25:07):

I know, but I'm, I understand that it's not easy when you're dealing with something that somebody has invested years of their life in. That's right. But also…

Kevin Goetz (25:22):

I wish I could be as blunt sometimes, quite frankly, as you are, you have a way of just saying.

Terry Press (25:26):

People will say to me, this is not my movie. And like when you cut trailers and every marketing person goes through this where it's like, this is not the movie that I made. This is not the movie that's in my head. This is not the movie. And my response will always be, but this is the movie someone wants to see. And so…

Kevin Goetz (25:44):

And you might not have set out to make this, but this is what it is,

Terry Press (25:46):

But this is what, or this is what I'm going to make it so someone wants to see it. Whatever you made, great for you, good, I'm glad you got the chance to make what you saw in your head. But ultimately my job is to present your baby in a way that makes the most beautiful version of itself or the version that somebody wants to spend $20 to see. And that is sometimes really hard for people. Because you're saying, thanks so much, now I'm going to take what you made. And then sometimes what people make is exactly what people want. You're basically presenting the movie to the world in a way that is absolutely truthful to what it is.

Kevin Goetz (26:36):

So what do you say to a filmmaker when they say it to you? That's not my movie or I don't like your trailer. And that's what, that's the way you're going to go. That is the direction you are going to go in because you know it in every ounce of your being. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> That's the way I find too many marketing folks either acquiesce and it hurts the campaign. How do you say to them as gently or not as gently as you can, back off? You did your thing. Let me do mine.

Terry Press (27:05):

There's a number of ways you do it. You can test them and, and yours if like, if there's a dramatic difference, it's like, okay, here's some numbers. Even though I was not a big proponent of testing trailers. Sometimes you make things that are very different and you are bringing the audience with you. You're not just giving them something like, here's a trailer that looks like the 87 other trailers. You're going to have to do some work with this. You know, who does that is the absolute total genius at that is David Fincher. David Fincher's trailers say, yeah, I'm not going to give you what you want. I mean I'm going to make this piece of work and I'm going to bring you.

Kevin Goetz (27:50):

Wait, wait, let me unpack that for a minute. What you're saying is that Fincher understands the essence of the communication, which is very rare by the way, of what he's communicating. So when he cuts a trailer, which is also unusual that any filmmaker's trailer works. His work because he is able to distill that essence in a, in a, whatever it is. It may not be the traditional structure of what we typically see as a trailer, but it still resonates in a very deep way.

Terry Press (28:22):

Because you remember it because it bumps up against what you think a trailer for whatever reason, like.

Kevin Goetz (28:28):

But is that why his…

Terry Press (28:29):

No, because he…

Kevin Goetz (28:30):

He's going to do his…

Terry Press (28:31):

It's just not going to feed you the usual grammar of trailers. Okay? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And so sometimes you have to take a risk that the audience will come with you.

Kevin Goetz (28:44):

Where was that most successful in? Was that like Social Network, for example? 

Terry Press (28:47):

Yeah, David did the first trailers for Social Network. Um, and they just were like…

Kevin Goetz (28:51):

Just better than anything that you could cut.

Terry Press (28:53):

Yeah. And Chris Nolan's trails, like these guys who…

Kevin Goetz (28:56):

Or ladies, right?

Terry Press (28:57):

And or ladies. Yeah, I'm sure there are. But like I'm just saying, if you have the strength of your conviction, like I have had many, many, many times with filmmakers where they've said, I don't like the trailer. And I'll be like, I hear you, but I'm going to do what I think is best. You have to listen. Like you have to be willing.

Kevin Goetz (29:21):

Do they say to you that, well then I'm not going to support the movie.

Terry Press (29:24):

They can't because I would say at least 70% of the time, the marketing people are right. It comes out the other side. 

Kevin Goetz (29:33):

At least 70% think most, I think probably more.

Terry Press (29:36):

But, but you can't really say, yeah, thanks for weighing in. You'll thank me on the other side. But that is what happens a lot of the time.

Kevin Goetz (29:44):

I mean look, let's see who's there. You've got right now Josh Goldstein and Josh Greenstein and you've got Michael Moses and you have…

Terry Press (29:53):

Mark Weinstock.

Kevin Goetz (29:54):

Mark Weinstock. I mean these are the best in the business. So why do you doubt the fact that they have them and their teams who are so extraordinary? I always question that. Like when filmmakers try to insinuate themselves on it would be like the marketing people coming in and saying, you know, maybe you should get this shot here or do it this way. I always found that somewhat disrespectful because you're undermining the great talent and contribution of marketing folks.

Terry Press (30:23):

Who are frequently branded as dream killers. Like, and so…

Kevin Goetz (30:28):

Which Couldn't be further furthest from the truth.

Terry Press (30:30):

It's not. But again, I say if being honest about what you've made makes me a dream killer, I'll have to live with that. Where it is getting harder and harder to cut through clutter. I mean you can look at it like both Josh and Michael did extraordinary campaigns this summer.

Kevin Goetz (30:56):

Wow. I mean let's talk about Barbie and Oppenheimer, man. Both of those campaigns for both extraordinary two different reasons.

Terry Press (31:02):

Extraordinary for two different reasons, right? And in some level, both of them work at studios where they have extended businesses with access. Josh has access to the Discovery wealth of outlets and Michael has Comcast. Comcast. So to me, it was like, this is a horse race. But to see the work that got done just blew me away. But just as somebody who was like, oh you know, Barbie's a big brand and you don't have to really sit in a room and figure out what color, like we all know it's going to be pink <laugh>. Right? Like the job of selling a period, three-hour movie about a nuclear scientist with not a star. I mean he's an amazing actor, but not a star is extraordinary.

Kevin Goetz (31:56):

It's extraordinary. And it's a drama and it just shows you…

Terry Press (31:59):

And it's a drama. And it shows that Chris Nolan…

Kevin Goetz (32:01):

Is Chris Nolan.

Terry Press (32:03):

Is Chris Nolan. My son will go to see anything Chris Nolan does. 

Kevin Goetz (32:05):

So will I. They made it an event. They did.

Terry Press (32:07):

That's the difference.

Kevin Goetz (32:08):

So American Beauty, could that be made today?

Terry Press (32:11):

No.

Kevin Goetz (32:13):

Not even for a streamer?

Terry Press (32:14):

I mean American Beauty made a hundred million dollars.

Kevin Goetz (32:17):

Why wouldn't that be made today? I can answer the question myself. But what is your feeling of why that can't be theatrical today? 

Terry Press (32:24):

Because adult dramas have shifted to streaming. That's my belief.

Kevin Goetz (32:30):

Could Forrest Gump be made today theatrically?

Terry Press (32:34):

No.

Kevin Goetz (32:35):

There's so many movies that you go, wow. And if they are theatrical, that doesn't mean, everyone who's listening, that they can't play in a theater. It means that having box office success is Terry and I's shorthand here by saying those movies would have a very difficult time finding an audience and eventizing them in today's world. And we go back to Ethan and Gracie on their mobile devices and it kind of answers it itself.

Terry Press (33:02):

I say this, and I don't say this lightly. I love baseball. We go to the baseball games and I look at baseball games, at families together. I look at people bringing two-year-olds where they're holding their parents' hands and they're having the best time and they're sitting together and they're spending three hours there or whatever and they're having junk food. And the kids are thrilled. And what is happening in that moment is that the parents are laying a groundwork of emotional connection to baseball. Their children will grow up thinking, I did this with my parents. We had a great time. You see the generational need, like where fathers want their sons to understand how great this is. And sports does it really well. Multi-generations go together and then they take their children. And one of the biggest failings of my generation of executives, I think is the failure to make going to see movies in theaters something that people connect to emotionally. Because what happens is then people pick convenience first.

Kevin Goetz (34:22):

Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons. I think you, for me, I always approach it a little bit differently. The consumer has shifted dramatically in terms of what they value. You and I talk about this all the time. We grew up with this nostalgia of going to a movie meant your first kiss, your birthday party.

Terry Press (34:41):

It was emotional.

Kevin Goetz (34:42):

And it was a sense of occasion. Like you went to a movie, it was a destination, it had meaning. And then, but even if you had, when you had VHS and then DVDs, you still went to the movies. And then the idea when the streamers came in and really began to make it so easy for people.

Terry Press (35:03):

And economically viable.

Kevin Goetz (35:04):

And economically viable. Yeah. People think that it's still an inexpensive, it is not an inexpensive going.

Terry Press (35:10):

It is not, and then when you go, it's disgusting. Like the theaters are gross. I tend to go to the movies down in the desert because the theaters are really nice and there's plenty of parking. Like you have to care about the experience because every time I walk into Dodger Stadium, I feel a little bit of a thrill. Like it's like, oh, look at how beautiful this is. Look at like all the kids. Like I, I feel something. You can't sustain an experience where the thing that people feel is, is this seat disgusting?

Kevin Goetz (35:45):

Well, I think that's why large screens and the large screen format has been so popular is because people want an experience. Right. They want that big screen, they want that big sound even more than a reclining seat. They want to know that they're being wowed and awed. And so they want material that's going to match that experience. And so many dramas, as you said before, don't have that same kind of weight, wouldn't you agree?

Terry Press (36:17):

I agree. But then I go back to and how many filmmakers though understand if you make a drama that builds, like I would argue that Saving Private Ryan, which is you know, pretty much acknowledged to be a masterpiece, that my reaction to Saving Private Ryan was so overwhelming the first time I saw it because I couldn't leave.

Kevin Goetz (36:44):

You know, I felt that way with Philadelphia. Remember the movie Philadelphia?

Terry Press (36:47):

Yes. But like I had to sit there and watch.

Kevin Goetz (36:51):

Okay. I have so many people who've said that.

Terry Press (36:53):

Because I couldn't leave. 

Kevin Goetz (36:54):

That scene on Omaha Beach. Right?

Terry Press (36:56):

It informs how you watch the entire rest of the movie and Steven is very smart about this is going to wipe you out and then we're going to go to this.

Kevin Goetz (37:05):

But it also lays a stake.

Terry Press (37:06):

It lays a stake. Then there's like the whole setup of the story, right? You get a break. But all I could think, and I've thought this a lot with movies, like I think about the Scorsese movie this year. Like I think, okay, I saw Oppenheimer in 70 millimeter Imax, right? Yes. Right. Is it the same if I turn it off and go make a tuna sandwich and feed the cats and go for a walk and then come back? I would argue that it is not.

Kevin Goetz (37:35):

Which also means that if you are making a movie or a piece of content, as you say, the difference is very pronounced, which we can talk about. But the idea of you have an experience that is an in-home experience, you are going to treat it differently and you have to have different criteria of engagement as well. Like you can't lose people in the first five or 10 minutes because they will tune out and not come back, for example.

Terry Press (38:04):

Right? I mean this is a big kettle of fish on so many levels.

Kevin Goetz (38:10):

I'm going to do something a little fun here. I want to mention people's names and I'd like you to tell me sort of first impressions of those, if you don't mind doing that. Okay. Okay. I'm going to start with a couple of obvious ones that are related to Terry Press. Steven Spielberg,

Terry Press (38:30):

Mensch, he's a mensch and he's a genius. And very few geniuses are mensches.

Kevin Goetz (38:36):

What makes him such a genius?

Terry Press (38:40):

I've told him this. Okay. His knowledge of what kind of story to tell at a certain kind of time. And then his gift of knowing where to put a camera, how to keep the story moving. I literally over the 4th of July, I texted him and said, you know, every year I try to watch, you know, I'm watching Yankee Doodle Dandy. Like I watch everything, but I decided I'm going to watch something that makes me feel proud to be an American. So I watched Bridge of Spies, which I had not seen since it came out. There were times when I'm watching Steven's movies where the directing bowls me over. Like I am just like, Jesus Christ, look at this guy. Right? Like look…

Kevin Goetz (39:25):

God, I remember this scene in Fabelmans, the best scene in the movie with John Ford. Did Steven say that happened by the way?

Terry Press (39:40):

Oh, it's that, that is actually word for word what happened. 

Kevin Goetz (39:43):

Oh, my Lord. It is the best.

Terry Press (39:45):

The John Ford sequence has happened.

Kevin Goetz (39:46):

Happened. I mean, I mean, I'm echoing so many folks who are in the film, film business who have seen that scene. And it's just one of those great moments that you'll never forget in your entire life.

Terry Press (39:59):

Steven loves movies. He loves them. They are his life. Okay? He loves his children, he loves his family. He adores his wife. Movies are his life. Okay? And I can, there was a relatability to that with me. But he is also unbelievably kind and gives all kinds of time to young directors. Like he's a mensch.

Kevin Goetz (40:20):

Okay, let me go on to the next one. Sam Mendes.

Terry Press (40:24):

Sam is a profoundly gifted filmmaker and also the British version of a mensch. He is…

Kevin Goetz (40:34):

Mensch, for those who don't know, is a great dude. Is a really, is a person with great character. Yes. Someone who is kind. He is. Right. And Stacey Snider,

Terry Press (40:43):

She is the executive I wish I could be and know deep in my heart, I never will be. Why? Because she knows how to manage people really well. She's very good at making people want to do their best work.

Kevin Goetz (41:03):

Scott Rudin.

Terry Press (41:05):

I think Scott is gifted, hilarious, and deeply loyal, and complicated. And I think there is more than one industry that feels his absence.

Kevin Goetz (41:25):

Which industry?

Terry Press (41:26):

Theater.

Kevin Goetz (41:27):

Theater. David Geffen?

Terry Press (41:29):

A genius.

Kevin Goetz (41:31):

What, what's his, what's his superpower man? What, what makes him underneath it all? 

Terry Press (41:35):

He is brutally honest. He is deeply loyal. Loyalty matters to me personally. It's something I value almost more than anything. And David is very similar, but I'll tell you a funny story. I remember being 20, like around 20, and I was riding in a car with my boyfriend at the time and we were playing this game of like, who's the one person you would dream to work with? And I remember this like it was yesterday and I said, I want to work with David Geffen because at the time he had every person that I worshiped in music basically on his label. And so when Dreamworks came along, I came in with Jeffrey and I had to go sit down with David. And when I sat across from David, I said to him, this moment of sitting across this desk from you is something that I have dreamed of and he does not disappoint. 

Kevin Goetz (42:32):

Wow. How about Wes Craven?

Terry Press (42:35):

Wes Craven put me in Red Eye.

Kevin Goetz (42:37):

The movie Red Eye.

Terry Press (42:38):

Yeah. Which I, it was, it's a very long story beyond which you probably know part of because of the testing of the movie. He was a lovely man, but I did not want to be in Red Eye.

Kevin Goetz (42:48):

Well he wanted you for a bigger part. He did. And he said, I'm not taking off. Can't leave my kids.

Terry Press (42:51):

I have a job.

Kevin Goetz (42:52):

The kids are in preschool at the time.

Terry Press (42:54):

I had a job. I was not.

Kevin Goetz (42:55):

Anyway, she's in a hotel lobby. Right, right. And then people wanted to know where you were at the end, right? They brought you back. 

Terry Press (43:01):

So, yeah. I know. It's like.

Kevin Goetz (43:04):

Jeffrey Katzenberg?

Terry Press (43:06):

Icon.

Kevin Goetz (43:07):

Mm. Big influence on you?

Terry Press (43:09):

And I on him.

Kevin Goetz (43:11):

Yeah. Mm. You got married at his house?

Terry Press (43:15):

I did. He gave me away along with my uncle.

Kevin Goetz (43:18):

Wow. That's something else.

Terry Press (43:21):

Long time ago.

Kevin Goetz (43:24):

Tom Rothman?

Terry Press (43:25):

Deeply committed, super smart, and not always aware of how intimidating that intelligence can be.

Kevin Goetz (43:37):

Donna Langley?

Terry Press (43:39):

Complete role model. I'm terrified of Donna Langley. Because like she's <laugh>, she's so classy. And you just want to say, oh my God, does it show that I am like, oh, I wish she likes me, I wish she liked me? Because she is very sort of Greer Garson-y to me.

Kevin Goetz (43:56):

Ooh, that's a great compliment. Here's my last one, Terry Press.

Terry Press (45:03):

Grateful, that's what I am. I'm grateful for my children, my husband, and grateful to my parents for never saying to me, don't go to film school.

Kevin Goetz (45:13):

What are you grateful for?

Terry Press (45:15):

I'm grateful that I have had the experience to work in the thing that I had the greatest passion for. Like for me, that is it. The bottom line is if you can figure out your passion and then you get to work in it or around it or some form of it, that is the ultimate reward.

Kevin Goetz (45:39):

And if I was going to say I'm honoring Terry tonight with this award for her lifetime achievement, what would I be honoring you for? Doing what?

Terry Press (45:53):

First of all, lemme just say something. I would never allow you to give me this award. Just saying, I would call you up and say, forget it. I'm not coming. So like that's, I don’t like…

Kevin Goetz (46:01):

Well, that sort of says it all.

Terry Press (46:04):

I don't, I…

Kevin Goetz (46:04):

There's an odd sense of humility about that.

Terry Press (46:07):

You know what, but you know what?

Kevin Goetz (46:08):

It really…

Terry Press (46:09):

I just want to say that I don't like to have a focus on me. I have, I have grown up in the industry very happy to stand behind. I don't like attention. How long did it take you to get me to do this podcast? Like I did this because we're friends.

Kevin Goetz (46:24):

Well, I want to ask you that. You are, you have an extraordinary voice. One that I can't say I've heard except in joking, you know, with a martini or two where you might give me a little bit of preview, but you've never performed publicly really since you're a kid, right? Yeah. But it's a, it's something you love and you're really good at.

Terry Press (46:48):

But.

Kevin Goetz (46:48):

Are you terrified of it or what?

Terry Press (46:50):

No, I just chose, I chose.

Kevin Goetz (46:53):

The opera. Wasn't it? Like you have…

Terry Press (46:54):

No, no, no. 

Kevin Goetz (46:54):

You have an operatic voice.

Terry Press (46:56):

No, no. I, no, and I don't. I mean, like, this is like years ago.

Kevin Goetz (46:59):

I know, but still.

Terry Press (47:00):

But I, no, I love music, right? And have just as many music obsessions as I do movie obsessions.

Kevin Goetz (47:09):

Do you sing in the shower?

Terry Press (47:10):

No.

Kevin Goetz (47:11):

Do you sing around the house?

Terry Press (47:14):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (47:14):

You know, I can find this out.

Terry Press (47:16):

So, yes, I do, I do. I sing in the car. I sing all the time. But that I get to talk to people like Sam Mendes and Steven and Paul Thomas Anderson and work with the Turner Classic Movies people. There is just no way other than to think that this is a gift.

Kevin Goetz (47:35):

And I know how true that is because I remember when you telling me you were, you live in the flats of Beverly Hills and when you were strolling your twins on the street, you told me that the phone rang and it was Steven Spielberg or David Geffen or Jeffrey Katzenberg or someone, and you're on the phone with like Spielberg and you looked at the neighbors walking on the other side of the sidewalk going, can you imagine I'm talking to Steven Spielberg right now, and the neighbors are just walking, having their nice little walk and I'm on with the most powerful filmmaker in the world. But you remember telling me that?

Terry Press (48:07):

I do. But like, here's the thing you need to understand, which is great. It’s so great. Like I recently, apparently this goes on all the time, but I went to this thing at Lincoln Center where Steven does film clips and John Williams, they play John Williams music live. 

Kevin Goetz (48:22):

Oh, okay. And John conducts?

Terry Press (48:24):

He, he conducted two things with Steven. Okay. But, but it was the regular orchestra. Yes. Yes. The New York Phil. Right. Okay. And so what was interesting was, I'm looking at Steven and I'm looking at these film clips, right? And I'm just like, Jesus Christ. Like even clip form, like this stuff is amazing. But then I looked over at Steven and I knew, and I look at the look on Steven's face as he looked at John Williams and the devotion and the worshiping of John Williams' talent. And after 50 years, I wish somebody would look at me the way Steven was looking at John Williams. Just a complete reverence and admiration for him.

Kevin Goetz (49:08):

I'm looking at you that way right now.

Terry Press (49:09):

I know, but like all I'm…

Kevin Goetz (49:11):

Do you get uncomfortable that I bestow so much attention on you?

Terry Press (49:14):

Because I do what I do. Like it's not, but I just want to finish this.

Kevin Goetz (49:17):

Do you know how much, but do you know how much I love you?

Terry Press (49:18):

I do. I do. Okay. And I am eternally grateful and I love you. But here's the thing, okay.

Kevin Goetz (49:24):

I really do.

Terry Press (49:24):

To know that even at this state of his career, that there is somebody who Steven like, it's like, yeah. And the reverence and admiration for talent. And that's the real thing for me is like people who love, love movies, right? The reverence for talent is always there.

Kevin Goetz (49:51):

Terry, tell us one thing. The one thing that, you've done so many interviews, you know, every frigging publicist and reporter and investigator and journalist in town, tell us the one thing that nobody really knows about Terry Press.

Terry Press (50:07):

People think that I'm super tough, and the truth is that I've always been pain painfully shy. Like what people think is stand offness or like she's just so tough…

Kevin Goetz (50:19):

Or aloof or something?

Terry Press (50:20):

Right. I can barely deal with it. Like I am so petrified in those situations.

Kevin Goetz (50:26):

And there's a really simple quality about you. Like you love shopping at Target. I do. And you love cooking and baking and you love, and you're so nice to, we had lunch the other day and just, I see how you are with people who are say, waiting on us and, and just like you treat everyone the same way, no matter if they’re Steven Spielberg or the person waiting the table. And I think that you are one of the most decent and fair people, but you don't suffer fools gladly.

Terry Press (50:55):

I don't.

Kevin Goetz (50:56):

And you see a lot of fools.

Terry Press (50:57):

I do. Yeah. Sometimes I think there's a help wanted sign outside the entertainment industry. <laugh> saying, fools, all fools welcome. Okay. But it's not necessarily a good thing. But I don't. That doesn't mean that I am difficult or mean or intimidating. What people think is intimidation is really just completely a shyness. But if I start talking about your movie, like…

Kevin Goetz (51:28):

Oh, exactly.

Terry Press (51:28):

Then I'm there.

Kevin Goetz (51:31):

Terry, you're an extraordinary human being. You're an amazing role model and mentor for so many folks and you're a treasure in our business and I thank you so much for doing this.

Terry Press (51:41):

Thanks, Kevin, that is so nice.

Kevin Goetz (51:43):

I mean it from my heart. Thank you.

Terry Press (51:46):

Thank you.

Kevin Goetz (51:47):

To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our interview today. For other stories like this one, please check out my book, Audienceology, at Amazon, or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com. You can also follow me on my social media at KevinGoetz360. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I welcome comedy director Steve Carr. Until next time, I'm Kevin Goetz. And to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie-making process. Your opinions matter.

 Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Terry Press
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes, DG Entertainment
Editors:  Kevin Goetz, Kari Campano, Gary Forbes