Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest: Editor and Producer, George Folsey Jr.
Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:02):

There's a little-known part of Hollywood that most people are not aware of, known as the audience test preview. The book Audienceology reveals this for the first time. Our podcast series, Don't Kill the Messenger, brings this book to life, taking a peek behind the curtain. And now join author and entertainment research expert, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:23):

Although my guest today went to college, there was no film program at his school. His film school was his first feature film Glass Houses in the early seventies, sold to Columbia Pictures. He was the producer, editor, and camera operator. I guess if I calculate correctly, he was about 33 at the time. Since then, George Folsey Jr. Has worked on many, many big and iconic films that we will discuss today, and he has also frequently collaborated with the great John Landis through the years as both an editor and a producer. I would be remiss to not mention that George's father is the legendary cinematographer, George Folsey Sr. who made, are you ready for this, 162 films and was nominated for, oh yeah, 13 Academy Awards in his lifetime. And the Apple doesn't fall far from the tree because George's son, Ryan is also an editor. George, we have so much to talk about. Welcome to my show.

George Folsey Jr. (01:32):

It's a pleasure to be with you, Kevin.

Kevin Goetz (01:34):

Man, George, we have an affinity for each other. I guess we met about 38 years ago, which is probably just when I entered the business. We've worked on so many movies together. I want to start with you at Metro growing up and what it was like to be a kid walking around that magical place at that magical time.

George Folsey Jr. (02:01):

I just felt that it was where my father worked and this was just the way things were. He worked in the movie business. I didn't see it any different than any other business. And going down to visit him on his sets was such a pleasure. I met Judy Garland, Mickey Rooney, Lana Turner, Esther Williams, who I had terrible crush on, and it was just a wonderful way to grow up.

Kevin Goetz (02:31):

Esther Williams, you had the crush on, not Lana Turner?

George Folsey Jr. (02:35):

Esther Williams.

Kevin Goetz (02:36):

Wow. Did you swim with her?

George Folsey Jr. (02:38):

I did.

Kevin Goetz (02:39):

Get out of here.

George Folsey Jr. (02:40):

Yeah. She came over to the pool and gave me a little swimming lesson. She came to the pool at our house. She lived on Carmelina, which was only a couple of blocks away from where we lived on Cliffwood in Brentwood.

Kevin Goetz (02:53):

What did your mom do?

George Folsey Jr. (02:55):

My mom was basically a housewife. She was born in 1898 in Hams, which is halfway between Damascus and Aleppo in Syria.

Kevin Goetz (03:10):

Wow. Was she Syrian?

George Folsey Jr. (03:11):

A hundred percent. My dad was the son of an Irish cop in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.

Kevin Goetz (03:18):

Oh, that's another thing we have in common. We talked about that at lunch a few weeks ago, which is I'm from Bensonhurst and you're from Bay Ridge.

George Folsey Jr. (03:26):

Bay Ridge. And my mother was a very good card player, very good with numbers, and I was pretty good with numbers. My dad didn't like numbers. And after his mother had died, they went to live with his uncle, and when he finished grade school, he decided that he had to go to work to support the family, and so they got him a job in an insurance company, just fucking hopeless for my dad.

Kevin Goetz (04:01):

Yeah.

George Folsey Jr. (04:02):

So he quit after about 30 minutes and got himself a job at the Famous Players film studio. Got to be Adolf Zucker’s office building,

Kevin Goetz (04:15):

Where was it?

George Folsey Jr. (04:16):

Astoria.

Kevin Goetz (04:17):

Queens.

George Folsey Jr. (04:19):

And my dad had a real artistic bent, and he was interested in photography, saw cameras and all this stuff, attached himself to a cameraman, got to be his assistant. And when he was about 19, they were doing a movie together and the cameraman said, I quit. And the producer, I think was Roy Webb came, this old guy.

Kevin Goetz (04:47):

Said, George, you're on.

George Folsey Jr. (04:49):

Yeah. And he said, can you do this? And my dad told me, Hey, I'm 19. I can do anything. And that was it. He was a first director of photography from that moment on.

Kevin Goetz (05:06):

You are such a definition of a hyphenate because you were wonderful as a producer and running a company. And you also are an extraordinary editor. I mean, those are almost left and right brain areas. I was a child actor as people know from this podcast, and I think you knew that just from our relationship over the years, but where did you learn to be an editor? Where did you learn that craft?

George Folsey Jr. (05:36):

Well, first of all, I just didn't like the idea that all my father's cameraman friends were getting their sons into the union. It's like, it's like, is this the teamsters? What is this? So it bothered me that people would give me a job because of my name. Well, after I got into editing pretty full time, I got a lot of job offers because of my name. But anyway, I got a job at KABC, the local station in Los Angeles and worked my way up.

Kevin Goetz (06:11):

Was that was up on Sunset, right near Gower?

George Folsey Jr. (06:14):

Yeah. And I didn't know anything about film because my dad was a cameraman. I never was in an editing group when I was at MGM and I finally, when I was leaving after five years, I got to be an editor. I cut the news, very good discipline.

Kevin Goetz (06:33):

And very quickly, there's no effing around, right, because you've got to be on at six o'clock or whatever it is.

George Folsey Jr. (06:39):

And I cut documentaries. One is a wonderful one called Dem Magnificent Bombs, which was the story of the Dodgers leaving Ebbits Field in Brooklyn and going to Los Angeles.

Kevin Goetz (06:55):

To Chavez Ravine.

George Folsey Jr. (06:57):

Chavez Ravine. And I got a job as an assistant editor at MGM, and they assigned me to Henry Berman, famous editor who had worked with my dad. And I didn't know much about editing features at that point. So we're coming back from lunch one day and a guy comes up to Henry and says, Hey, Henry, I understand you've got a system and can you tell me about it? And Henry's nicest guy in the world says, sure. So my ears perked up, and Henry explained his system that he used. I don't think you want me to explain it, but it was just a simple way of organizing the film, going through the film and picking out the pieces you liked and fixing it. And I've always used that system and it's done very well for me. And Henry became a great friend, and we actually edited a couple of movies together as co-editors. It was great.

Kevin Goetz (08:01):

Who else were your influences on the editing front? Just because I think about some of the great editors that I had the opportunity to work with kind of on the tail end of their career. Like Didi Allen, like Michael Kahn, like Ann V. Coates.

George Folsey Jr. (08:19):

Sure.

Kevin Goetz (08:20):

Did you work with these folks? Did or know these folks?

George Folsey Jr. (08:23):

I knew who they were. I never really worked with them. Editors tend to have their own little niche where they work, and unless there's editors around you that are working, you don't really get a whole lot of byplay unless you seek it out. I've had had some very good talks with Steve Marioni, who's I think one of the best editors around. He's won an Academy Award. But it was interesting. I learned the system, but when I hooked up with John Landis, which we'll get to in a moment, Landis and I actually taught each other that comedy was reactive. And sometimes it's more important to cut to somebody listening than it is to the cut to the speaker. It's interesting because I've heard this a lot, when actors talk about what's the best way to act.

Kevin Goetz (09:24):

Right?

George Folsey Jr. (09:25):

Best way is to be a good listener.

Kevin Goetz (09:27):

So let's say you're doing a dialogue scene between two actors and the joke is being set up by somebody and the punchline is being delivered by the other. How would you deal with the cutting of that?

George Folsey Jr. (09:39):

Well, I certainly wouldn't cut on the punchline.

Kevin Goetz (09:42):

That makes total sense. But you're saying that it's watching the person listening to the joke that a lot of the comedy is generated.

George Folsey Jr. (09:50):

It might be a lot funnier. It might be a lot funnier to watch the person reacting to what the other person is saying. So that was kind of our philosophy.

Kevin Goetz (10:01):

Well, you certainly made some great comedies together. Let's go to some of them. What was your favorite?

George Folsey Jr. (10:07):

I really had to pick a favorite is probably Trading Places because we had so much trouble on that movie shooting back in Philadelphia.

Kevin Goetz (10:19):

Why?

George Folsey Jr. (10:20):

Well, there was a producer on the movie that hated the idea. He had been involved with Paramount on the movie before, and when Landis came in to direct it, and I came with Landis, he was very, very unhappy about my presence on the movie. This is Aaron Russo. And he and I had a very nasty relationship until the end of the movie when he came up to me and he said, we haven't had much fun on this movie,

Kevin Goetz (10:50):

Understatement.

George Folsey Jr. (10:52):

And he said, what you did on this movie I couldn't have done.

Kevin Goetz (10:57):

Wow. Well, that's eating some crow, eating your hat in a good way.

George Folsey Jr. (11:01):

And I said, Aaron, I appreciate that. I understand, and thank you.

Kevin Goetz (11:06):

Did you ever become friends after that or friendly? 

George Folsey Jr. (11:11):

Not really. The fact that he said that he was not a stupid guy. In Trading Places, if you recall, we had just had that terrible accident on the Twilight Zone set.

Kevin Goetz (11:23):

Oh yeah.

George Folsey Jr. (11:24):

We didn't know if we would ever work again in Hollywood.

Kevin Goetz (11:28):

We are speaking of course of a terrible tragedy on Twilight Zone where three of the actors were killed.

George Folsey Jr. (11:35):

Two children and Vic Morrow.

Kevin Goetz (11:37):

Vic Morrow, and two children in a helicopter accident on set. And it was a very important milestone for set safety and so forth. But I know you were embroiled in a whole legal entanglement for so long.

George Folsey Jr. (11:53):

What turns out after the five years between the accident and the jury's verdict in which everybody, all five defendants, including myself and Landis, were acquitted of all the charges. We were able to show exactly what happened. And what happened was an accident. It was something that would've happened in the middle of the day, didn't matter at the time. The jury came out at the end of the trial and gave a press conference and said, we saw this as an accident and we don't understand why you prosecute people for an accident.

Kevin Goetz (12:36):

Oh, that was great. The entire jury, that was their decision. And let me ask you something. Did you not work within those five years?

George Folsey Jr. (12:44):

As a matter of fact, Jeffrey Katzenberg was friendly with us, came to us and said, I've got this project that I'd like you to do. It's called Black and White, and it's got this actor just in a movie with 48 Hours called Eddie Murphy. And we said, okay, we'll do it. We're desperate to get a job and hopefully to Hollywood to hostile towards us, although I feel that they were.

Kevin Goetz (13:16):

Why was Hollywood against you? I want to tell you from my own perspective, I was a young guy. I wasn't even in the business yet as I am today. I mean, I was an actor and I remember saying how awful for them, it could have happened to anyone. Did people not get that?

George Folsey Jr. (13:36):

No. I had a lot of friends who were very nasty to me. We were indicted on charges of manslaughter. So manslaughter is two to five years per count.

Kevin Goetz (13:52):

Did you think you might be going to jail? George?

George Folsey Jr. (13:54):

Of course. 

Kevin Goetz (13:56):

Wow. Unbelievable. And John as well. I'm sure.

George Folsey Jr. (13:59):

John had five counts against him, and I had two, but Katzenberg got us this movie.

Kevin Goetz (14:07):

He got you Black and White. It makes everyone feel like, okay, they're given a chance again in Hollywood.

George Folsey Jr. (14:14):

Well, it wasn't called Black and White. Trading Places is the title that I came up with.

Kevin Goetz (14:21):

Oh, you're the one. I was going to ask you how it came to be. You came up with it.

George Folsey Jr. (14:25):

After driving and going back and forth on the subway down to the commodities exchange in the World Trade Center, trying to get them to allow us to shoot the climactic scene of training places in the commodities exchange. And it took me about two or three months while we were shooting in Philadelphia and talking to the people. Finally, they allowed us to shoot there. They let me change the entire structure of the screens that are in the Comex. Wow. They were great. And I got all the members of the gold pit to come back on the Saturday and Sunday where we shot and take the same places that they took when I was shooting second unit down there. They let me shoot second unit right in the middle of trading. And John saw this. He said, my God, can we get to cut my stuff with yours? And I said, well, we'll have to put the people in the same positions. And we did. And it worked out. It worked out great.

Kevin Goetz (15:35):

George, do you consider yourself more of a producer or more of an editor?

George Folsey Jr. (15:42):

What I really think of myself is, and it becomes from all the movies, movies that I've tried to fix, some successfully, some not. I just think of myself as a person that is whatever job I've got, either editor or producer, second unit director, whatever. Just trying to help everybody make the movie as good as we can make it.

Kevin Goetz (16:08):

Yeah. It's so funny. I always call you, as a joke, oh, George is here, the fixer. You've been on many movies that they've called you in. I've seen it over the years. I've worked on many movies with you, movies that were not even yours initially that you came in on to fix, to help. So that is a really interesting superpower that you possess because it really is the leitmotif of George Folsey Jr., isn't it?

George Folsey Jr. (16:34):

Well, the trick is, when you're going to fix a movie, a lot of people come in and say, we're just going to clean the house. And that's without question the worst thing you can do because you alienate the director, the editor, alienate everybody. They know the movie better than you. They've been working on it for five, six months, and you come in and you're this jerk that comes in and they hate you. So I would try to befriend them and help them. Sometimes the studio didn't like this because they thought it was taking the filmmakers side, but I wasn't, I wasn't tricking them. I was just trying to see if I could get everybody to do the right thing for the movie. But I think the secret of my career is I've really never taken sides. Landis and I fought in the editing room all of the time. Bitterly, in a sophisticated way, it wasn't nasty.

Kevin Goetz (17:40):

Oh yeah. It was. I would call it civic discourse.

George Folsey Jr. (17:43):

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Goetz (17:45):

No, really, healthy debate. And you were passionate about your position. He was passionate about his. One thing that I want to talk about when we come back from the break is your relationship to the test screening process as well as John's. We'll be back in a moment with George Folsey. Listeners, The Motion Picture Television Fund is a nonprofit charitable organization that supports working and retired members of the entertainment community. This wonderfully run organization offers assistance for living and aging with dignity and purpose in the areas of health and social services, including temporary financial assistance, case management, and residential living, and has been a crucial lifeline to thousands during and beyond the strikes. To learn more, visit mptf.com. Please join me in helping others in our industry during times of need. There are so many ways to offer support and get involved. Thank you.

(18:55):

And we're back with George Folsey Jr. The wonderful George Folsey Jr. Whenever I see George and have seen him over the years, I sort of get a smile on my face. I've been so fond of you, George. You've been kind to me always. One of your most enduring qualities is the fact that you're a really nice fellow. You're a really nice guy, and people know you to be. So I just interviewed Ron Howard not too long ago, and he also has that tremendous decency, and that's a word I would use to describe you, and I hope that rings true for you when I say that.

George Folsey Jr. (19:30):

Well, I wouldn't say it myself, but your lips to God's ears.

Kevin Goetz (19:36):

So you really did embrace always the screening process in a way that was pretty terrific in my view, how I made my living. John, not so much. John's always been a little bit, in my view from afar, and I don't know him well, was sort of a curmudgeon when it came to research and test screenings. He was a little bit dismissive, I would find. Would that be fair?

George Folsey Jr. (20:03):

Yes and no. I mean, I think he understood it was a necessary process because the studio embraced it.

Kevin Goetz (20:10):

But necessary for who? The studio.

George Folsey Jr. (20:13):

Well, I thought it was a process. Very important process.

Kevin Goetz (20:19):

You still do when you're working on a movie now.

George Folsey Jr. (20:21):

Yeah. Whatever the context of a test screening is, you're finding out what a cross section of the audience thinks about your movie. How bad can this be? If it's a problem, maybe we can fix it. If you're not going to test, you're never going to know. So what's the problem with testing? And I know a lot of people feel uncomfortable with it. They think they should go with their instincts. I mean, we never tested Animal House.

Kevin Goetz (20:49):

You didn't?

George Folsey Jr. (20:50):

No. We had a preview in Denver, and of course the studio was never much of a fan of Animal House.

Kevin Goetz (20:59):

What studio was it?

George Folsey Jr. (21:00):

Universal.

Kevin Goetz (21:00):

It was Universal. So they weren't a big fan of it?

George Folsey Jr. (21:03):

No. And they made a movie called American Graffiti.

Kevin Goetz (21:07):

That was George Lucas, wasn't it?

George Folsey Jr. (21:09):

Oh yeah. And they didn't like that movie either. So they left us completely alone on Animal House. We had one note from the studio one, and it was such a stupid note.

Speaker 1 (21:22):

What was it?

George Folsey Jr. (21:23):

Well, when Otter goes to the motel, he thinks he's going to get laid and he's got a dozen roses and the door opens and there's the Omega guys, and they beat the shit out of him. And we're screening the movie for Ned Tanen. It's me and Malcolm Campbell, my assistant, who became our editor, and John and Ned had just the four of us in the room. So Ned turns to, this is a wonderful story, Ned turns to John and says, that's not funny. And John turns to me and he said, Ned didn't think that was funny.

Kevin Goetz (22:01):

Was Ned the head of the studio then?

George Folsey Jr. (22:03):

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I said, it's not intended to be funny. They beat him up and John turns to Ned says, Ned, it's not intended to be funny. And Ned says, not intended to be funny? We're making a comedy that's not intended to be funny. And the movie is playing. Oh, Jesus. So we come back to the editing room and John says, what do you think we should do? I said, what? We're not going to do anything. Are you kidding? It's a story point. It's really, give me a break. So we go into this preview in Denver when nobody has much expectation, and I was actually a little bit afraid for my wife at the end of the movie. The audience was so hyper crazed. They damn near tore the seats out of the theater.

Kevin Goetz (23:03):

Hold on. I thought you said you didn't test it.

George Folsey Jr. (23:05):

There's no cards. Just a preview. See how it plays. And the audience went nuts. I've really never been in a preview like this. So the studio said, okay, it's perfect. Don't change anything. So of course, Landis and I went back into the editing room and we probably made 45 or 50 little nips and things.

Kevin Goetz (23:32):

Sure.

George Folsey Jr. (23:33):

But that was so, I think that's kind of soured John on the preview process because he felt who needs this stuff?

Kevin Goetz (23:43):

Well, but in fact he did need it because the audience spoke and told you don't change a thing, not a studio head. So the audience, you'd think that he'd really emboldened to trust not the suits, but the people out there in those seats.

George Folsey Jr. (24:03):

Yeah. Well, everybody was worried about it.

Kevin Goetz (24:06):

It just left a bad taste in his mouth, is what you're saying?

George Folsey Jr. (24:09):

Yeah, I guess.

Kevin Goetz (24:12):

So, after Trading Places, you are back on top. Would that be a fair statement?

George Folsey Jr. (24:18):

Well, I wouldn't quite go that far. I don't think John and certainly myself psychologically, have never really totally recovered from the fact that three people died on your set. I mean…

Kevin Goetz (24:36):

Yeah, but I'm sorry to say this. That was under a particular studio's watch. It was under a hundred people that were also associated with it. But you're saying because the buck stops with the director and the producer, there was a sense of this responsibility.

George Folsey Jr. (24:53):

Well, I was the co-producer on that segment. There were four different segments.

Kevin Goetz (24:59):

Four segments, yeah, sure.

George Folsey Jr. (25:01):

And I really didn't have the usual amount of control I had.

Kevin Goetz (25:06):

So you still think about it today is what you're saying?

George Folsey Jr. (25:08):

Of course.

Kevin Goetz (25:09):

Wow.

George Folsey Jr. (25:10):

I was there the night it happened. So I mean, I had to drive back with the father of the little boy to tell the mother what had happened. I ended up giving the eulogy for Vic Morrow because we were very friendly with his ex-wife, Barbara Turner. She and Jennifer Jason Leigh asked me to do it.

Kevin Goetz (25:36):

George, I am so very appreciative of the candor. It's kind of an elephant in the room, and I love that you deal with it so head on and so honestly, and since then, of course to live it is one thing, but to look at it from the outside, I can certainly understand it. What do you feel is a project in your mind as an editor that you think you made the biggest contribution on? For example, you kind of made it from a rock to a polished diamond. Is there such an example that you can share with the listeners?

George Folsey Jr. (26:13):

I took over a movie that Sean Levy was directing called Cheaper by the Dozen.

Kevin Goetz (26:18):

Oh, yes. I worked on that with you, George.

George Folsey Jr. (26:21):

Yeah. We got enormously good test scores. And the producer of the movie, Bob Simons brought me in and they had had some of the movie with another editor, and so I ended up taking it over. But at one point, there's all dozen kids. And I kept noticing that the kids were really ungrateful. The father, Steve Martin, and I think his wife is Bonnie Hunt, were in a movie like Meet Me in St. Louis, he's going to another job, Meet Me in St. Louis, one of my dad's Academy Award nominations. Well, he's got a better job as a coach and they've got to move and the kids are unhappy and the family is only trying to do what's right for the kids, and the kids are ungrateful and little brats. And I turned to Bob Simons and Sean and I said, I just want to be sure I get this right. And do you want these kids to be these nasty, ungrateful little brats or should we fix it? And they said, what are you talking about? I said, what am I talking about? Look at this and this. What about this? And how's this little girl who's the meanest of all just being a bitch? And they were like, so we went through every take of one of those kids and either found a better tape that was less hostile or cut the line out. So I think the movie would not have been as successful if all that hostility and meanness was in there.

Kevin Goetz (28:14):

Can I ask you a question about that? Did you learn that from the screening process or is that your own instincts before we even tested it?

George Folsey Jr. (28:20):

Oh no. It was way before we ever did it. Got it. It was my first couple of weeks on the movie. Wow.

Kevin Goetz (28:27):

And they got it. You know how to get right to the core. You also worked very closely with Eli Roth, who was a guest on this podcast who I crazy about for so many reasons.

George Folsey Jr. (28:40):

He's such a smart guy.

Kevin Goetz (28:42):

He's so smart. He's a terrific guy and a really great artist, very thoughtful. And when you see his movies, it's kind of like this came from that mind. What was that like working with Eli?

George Folsey Jr. (28:55):

Well, we had a great time together. We always had a good time. I did both the Hostel movies and I was in Prague when they were shooting them and cut them back to Los Angeles. We had done American Werewolf, but this was quite a different animal with American Werewolf.

Kevin Goetz (29:14):

No pun intended.

George Folsey Jr. (29:16):

No.

Kevin Goetz (29:16):

You could use the same pun on Animal House.

George Folsey Jr. (29:19):

Yeah. Clint Culpepper got really mad at me because.

Kevin Goetz (29:24):

Clint Culpepper, who was head of Screen Gems at the time

George Folsey Jr. (29:26):

Of Screen Gems at the time that was producing the first Hostel, and he didn't want to spend the money and neither does it. His post-production. People want to spend the money to do a really terrific sound mix on the movie. And it was like, what are you talking about? Half of what's in this movie is going to be how the sound is played. That's more scary than almost anything.

Kevin Goetz (29:54):

Ask Jason Blum that and Cooper Samuelson at Blumhouse, they'll tell you that's absolutely true.

George Folsey Jr. (30:01):

And I won that battle.

Kevin Goetz (30:02):

But Clint knew that, didn't he? I mean, Clint's so good at that.

George Folsey Jr. (30:06):

I think he was mad at me. I went to Warner Brothers and got a quote about how to do the sound, because I'm fairly ruthless when I think that the movie is being compromised.

Kevin Goetz (30:17):

You're also a producer, George.

George Folsey Jr. (30:20):

Well, I wasn't a producer on that.

Kevin Goetz (30:21):

No. I mean, in your heart and soul, you know how to get shit done, man. That's a very important thing. That's a terrific example of how you are not the typical editor. You bring other things to the table.

George Folsey Jr. (30:38):

Well, once I became a producer and some success with that, it tends to give you a lot of confidence. Then maybe the fact that you're dealing from common sense, which is basically what film editing is all about, trying to think of so what would the audience like to see next?

Kevin Goetz (31:02):

Sure. Speaking of that, what have you learned most in a research screening where you were like, this is a great note. Wow, a light bulb went off.

George Folsey Jr. (31:14):

I don't think I have an example of something that came out of a research screening where it was like, why the hell didn't we see this?

Kevin Goetz (31:26):

I thought you would have had maybe multiple times when you were like, that is what they're saying. We got to address some version of that.

George Folsey Jr. (31:34):

Well, you're the one that can codify that information. You're the one that we look to say, here's what these people are saying. When you go back and you talk to the filmmakers after the discussion group, we may be thinking it, but we want to hear it from you because of your experience. You know what the hell they're talking about. And maybe we are too close to it.

Kevin Goetz (32:00):

Now you've worked with a couple other people. I'd like to get a sense of Bob Saget.

George Folsey Jr. (32:06):

That was a movie called Dirty Work, and that was a really fun movie, and I had a great time with Bob Saget. I really never had much problem with any of the directors I worked with.

Kevin Goetz (32:24):

What about Paul Feig?

George Folsey Jr. (32:25):

Paul Feig and I had an interesting relationship. He was very, very respectful, very nice with me.

Kevin Goetz (32:32):

What picture did you do with him?

George Folsey Jr. (32:34):

It was the dumbest title ever for a movie that's directed at children. Here's a title that even I have trouble pronouncing Unaccompanied Minors.

Kevin Goetz (32:47):

Oh god, that's funny. I just had a conversation with Chris Meledandri about Despicable Me. Believe me, the studio had to go to great lengths to create this sort of mnemonic devices to get the name out there. I did focus groups and people were like, I would ask kids, how do you say that? And it was so crazy that the studio had to truly have a campaign that addressed that. Isn't that interesting? And you're saying the same thing. So did they ever change the title?

George Folsey Jr. (33:25):

No. My son came up, these kids are stuck at the airport on Christmas Eve. That's the premise. So my son who came up to visit me, we were shooting the Salt Lake City, and he said, that title is terrible.

Kevin Goetz (33:41):

How old was Ryan? Was it Ryan?

George Folsey Jr. (33:43):

Yeah. He would've been maybe 30. And he said, why don't you just call it Grounded? So the next come back to LA and Lauren Schuler’s daughter was producing it, and she came into the editing room and I said, Lauren, what this Unaccompanied Minor title is terrible. Why don't we just call it Grounded? My son came up with this. She said, that's great. Can I tell a studio? I said, sure. So everybody loved the title except Mr. Feig wouldn't change it.

Kevin Goetz (34:19):

It's very funny how filmmakers will get very protective of the thing that they've nurtured as a title. I've done that when I had a movie called Black Iris for so long that I was producing, and ultimately it was changed by Paramount and Showtime to Wild Iris, and we went ballistic. Now I can't think of any other name. So you got to sometimes leave those things up to the marketing department.

George Folsey Jr. (34:48):

But it was released as Unaccompanied Minors. God, I can't believe I'm saying that so smoothly. Anyway.

Kevin Goetz (34:57):

Maybe Paul was right after all these years, by the way, he's so fantastic.

George Folsey Jr. (35:04):

He's just a lovely guy.

Kevin Goetz (35:05):

He’s such a lovely guy, and he's really good. I loved Spy with Melissa McCarthy and Jason Statham was so good in that. He has this way of comedy that is just really my sensibility. Crazy about him. And all of his films come through us and our company, and we just can't say enough about him. Terrific guy. But interesting about the research process. What's your relationship like with the audience as an editor? How do you embrace audience feedback knowing that you have an artistic baby, that you are nurturing and representing from either the director, producer, and of course you're a big part of that as the editor. It then goes to a place where the rubber hits the road, doesn't it? You show your movie to the world, and how do you feel about that and audience feedback?

George Folsey Jr. (36:01):

I think it's a good thing because if you're, it's not like you're doing a painting and buying some paints. You're making this movie and there could be millions and millions of dollars involved and people's careers involved, and you got one shot at it. You release the movie and good luck and anybody that can help you make the movie better, make it more appealing to the audience, why wouldn't you take advantage of that?

Kevin Goetz (36:38):

Another way I like to say it, George, is ignore the audience at your own peril.

George Folsey Jr. (36:43):

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kevin Goetz (36:44):

I want to ask you though about, I watched the wonderful John Landis in a documentary on Michael Jackson, and just the other day I was in Alaska on a cruise, and we were stopped in Anchorage. And on the TV was this documentary, and I thought it was quite interesting and how Michael sought out John Landis to direct Thriller. And the reason he did that was because he was inspired by American Werewolf in London, and I wanted to know what it was like to work on Thriller and working with the great late Michael Jackson.

George Folsey Jr. (37:17):

Well, I just had the best time with Michael. We would go over to his house when he lived on Havenhurst and have dinner. My kids had gone one time. We were there and Michael comes out and he's got this Python.

Kevin Goetz (37:33):

Oh, in Encino, right?

George Folsey Jr. (37:35):

Yeah. In Encino. Yeah. He's got this Python.

Kevin Goetz (37:38):

Python?

George Folsey Jr. (37:39):

Python, a snake wrapped around him, and he says, Belinda, here take Muscles. The kids want to go see.

Kevin Goetz (37:48):

His name was Muscles?

George Folsey Jr. (37:49):

Muscles the Python. So he hands Belinda, my wife, this Python. Belinda is like, and the snake sort of comes up and looks at Belinda and Belinda says, oh, Michael, he's hissing at me. And Michael says, oh, don't worry. He's already had a mouse to eat. Anyway, I had a great time with Michael. He came to our house when we lived up on Stella and had dinner up there. And he would come over to the editing room when we were editing Thriller, and he would drive himself and he'd come about 10 and leave about 1:30 or two.

Kevin Goetz (38:39):

Wow.

George Folsey Jr. (38:40):

And he had a four door sedan, standard Rolls Royce, silver shadow, I guess, and a car that I restored, a 1972 Cornish coop. It was just a really elegant car. So Michael comes over and parks his Rolls next to mine. And of course, everybody knew when Michael was coming, how the underground works. So we come out at two o'clock in the morning and on my car, there are maybe 20 or 30 notes that are stuck to the windshield, and they're all notes to Michael. And Michael and I walk out there, we're about to drive off.

Kevin Goetz (39:34):

And Michael, these are for you, Michael, not me.

George Folsey Jr. (39:39):

All these notes on my car.

Kevin Goetz (39:42):

What were they saying? What'd they say?

George Folsey Jr. (39:44):

He said, George, why are all these notes on your car? I don't understand. It was just so damn funny. 

Kevin Goetz (39:54):

Wait a minute, everybody wait had, hold on. What did the notes say? Like, I love you, Michael.

George Folsey Jr. (39:57):

Oh yeah.

Kevin Goetz (39:58):

Just.

George Folsey Jr. (39:59):

Call me. Here's my number.

Kevin Goetz (40:01):

Right.

George Folsey Jr. (40:02):

But they assumed that the coop was his car.

Kevin Goetz (40:06):

Oh, that's funny. Anyway, that is a good one.

George Folsey Jr. (40:10):

We drove off together and I followed him home.

Kevin Goetz (40:13):

He drove himself.

George Folsey Jr. (40:14):

He drove himself. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (40:16):

Wow. That's kind of an interesting image. You picture him always with an entourage and…

George Folsey Jr. (40:21):

No, he came over all by himself.

Kevin Goetz (40:24):

My dear friend Graham King is producing the movie right now on Michael's life called Michael, which I'm very, very excited to see. And Graham is such an incredible producer, and he's dedicated to the Jackson family. He met them when he was pumping gas back in the day, and the Jacksons came in and they invited him to play softball with them as a family, and he got to be friends with them as an early guy when he first got to Los Angeles. Isn't that a great story? And now he's making the movie of Michael.

George Folsey Jr. (40:57):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (40:58):

Oh, George, before we break, I have to share something with you. As you know, I got a tremendous honor earlier this year. They gave me the American Cinematheque Award, the Power of Cinema Award, along with the lifetime achievement that went to Helen Mirren and the American Cinematheque prepared a tribute reel for me, and I helped put it together and so forth. With the help of DG Entertainment. And just now received this award, the Silver Tele Award, out of 13,000 entries for the best craft in editing reel. My name is on it. I want to say that this is the first time I ever received any accolade for editing, and I'd like to dedicate this award to Mr. George Folsey.

George Folsey Jr. (41:56):

Oh, that's very sweet, haven't it? It's obvious that you've learned how to do it,

Kevin Goetz (42:01):

George, thank you, my friend, somebody who I look up to so much. You put a smile on my face. You are a tremendous asset to our business, and I'm grateful that you were my guest. Thank you.

George Folsey Jr. (42:15):

Thank you, Kevin. It's been such a pleasure to be on your show. I'm honored to be on it.

Kevin Goetz (42:21):

To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our interview today. For more filmmaking and audience testing stories, I invite you to check out my book Audienceology at Amazon or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com. You can also follow me on my social media. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: George Folsey Jr.
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)