Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest: Veteran Producer and Former Journalist, David Friendly
Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:03):

There's a little-known part of Hollywood that most people are not aware of, known as the audience test preview. The book Audienceology reveals this for the first time. Our podcast series, Don't Kill the Messenger, brings this book to life, taking a peek behind the curtain. And now join author and entertainment research expert, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:24):

In preparing for guest interviews, I'm always struck by the fascinating paths that people take in life and where those paths lead. My guest today is a perfect example of that. For over 30 years, he's been a film producer and motion picture executive collaborating with some of the most esteemed directors in the industry like Ron Howard, Ed Zwick and the dynamic duo, Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris. But what makes his journey even more remarkable is where it all began, not in film, but in journalism. He started his career as a staff writer at Newsweek Magazine, followed by working as a columnist at the Los Angeles Times. What a remarkable transition and success story. Today I'm thrilled to welcome Academy Award nominated producer David Friendly to the show. David, thank you so much for joining me today.

David Friendly (01:19):

Well, I would say yes to you in a heartbeat. And I was thinking on the way over here, I was driving on the 101 and I was thinking about all the previews we've done together, and I started thinking about this movie, The Cooler. Do you remember The Cooler?

Kevin Goetz (01:32):

Oh yeah. That was a good movie.

David Friendly (01:34):

They would bring him in when somebody was too hot at the table.

Kevin Goetz (01:38):

That's right.

David Friendly (01:38):

And you are a reverse cooler, and I don't want to embarrass you, but a lot of producers like myself always ask for you because we think you're good luck, which you may not even know. Not only are you talented, but you're good luck.

Kevin Goetz (01:53):

Well, that's amazing. And on the way over here, I took Ventura, not the 101. I was thinking, have I worked with you more or with your wife, Priscilla Friendly more?

David Friendly (02:04):

More.

Kevin Goetz (02:05):

I actually think it's Priscilla.

David Friendly (02:07):

Probably.

Kevin Goetz (02:08):

I should have her on as a guest because we started at Pretty Woman, right?

David Friendly (02:13):

I mean, I think you'd be getting smarter answers from her.

Kevin Goetz (02:17):

Oh, stop.

David Friendly (02:17):

And maybe more caustic answers from me.

Kevin Goetz (02:20):

Oh Lord, I'm not touching that one. I want to start with your background, where you were from and really how your father, Fred Friendly, had an influence on you. He was the president of CBS News in the sixties, and in fact the character, I think that Clooney played in Goodnight and Good Luck was your dad.

David Friendly (02:42):

That was my dad. And actually I tell people that George did a very admiral job, but my father didn't really look like George Clooney. Not many of us do, but we were happy when he was cast.

Kevin Goetz (02:55):

Exactly. I would love to have George Clooney play me in a movie. That would be a blast. Hey George, can we talk?

David Friendly (03:02):

But a funny thing about how great George was during that whole process, and I'll tell you a little bit about growing up with my dad, but George called and asked me if I would read the script, make sure things were accurate. Were you involved in the movie? The family was comfortable, no, strictly as an outsider.

Kevin Goetz (03:19):

Advisor.

David Friendly (03:19):

And he had our family come to the readthrough. He was very respectful and when I read the script I said, look, the script's great. There's one thing I want to bring up. Everybody smokes in the movie. And Murrow was a chain smoker. That's a hundred percent correct. My father never smoked a cigarette and hated cigarettes because it killed his partner, Edward R. Murrow. And so you cannot put a cigarette in his hands and they didn't.

Kevin Goetz (03:45):

Wow.

David Friendly (03:46):

But that's why it's smart to do what he did. Just that little detail.

Kevin Goetz (03:50):

You would've been so pissed if you thought.

David Friendly (03:51):

And it would've been so wrong. My dad fought very hard to get cigarette advertising off of television and was successful.

Kevin Goetz (03:59):

What a weird little detail. But that is so meaningful though.

David Friendly (04:01):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (04:02):

Alright. Where are you from?

David Friendly (04:04):

I'm originally from a little part of the Bronx called Riverdale. The last stop on the number one subway, 242nd Street ends on 242nd and Broadway. You walk up a hill and you're in an area called Fieldston and I went to Riverdale School. They have three great schools there called the Hill Schools, Riverdale, Fieldston, and Mann.

Kevin Goetz (04:24):

It's quite a good area.

David Friendly (04:25):

Beautiful.

Kevin Goetz (04:26):

Tony area.

David Friendly (04:27):

Bucolic. The streets are private, so there's like potholes and chestnut trees. You'd never know you were in the Bronx, but sometimes if I want to act tough, I'm from the Bronx.

David Friendly (04:38):

I'm really from Riverdale.

Kevin Goetz (04:39):

And so I imagine you're a Yankees fan.

David Friendly (04:42):

I'm a Yankee fan, although my dad aforementioned was a Met fan because he always rooted for the underdog. But anyway, I grew up in Riverdale. My father was married for 20 years to my mother. They were divorced when I was 10 years old I think. And into my life came this incredible woman, a school teacher from Scarsdale, Ruth Friendly, who changed my whole life and made me a much better student and got me on the right path. She's a hundred now. I was just back in New York, staying in the house. I grew up with my stepmother. Yes. And she's still in that house.

Kevin Goetz (05:18):

Is your mom still alive?

David Friendly (05:19):

My mom passed away quite a few years ago. She had moved to Manhattan into the city.

Kevin Goetz (05:25):

You rarely hear that the stepmother that comes in.

David Friendly (05:28):

Amazing.

Kevin Goetz (05:29):

Is that influential. That's extraordinary.

David Friendly (05:32):

Well, it shows you the value of a teacher because I was headed down the wrong path a little later.

Kevin Goetz (05:40):

That's where the Bronx came in. Yo.

David Friendly (05:42):

I became a teenager. I was pretty unsupervised until she came along and I was going on the wrong road. And then she really got me interested in books and learning and I ended up becoming the class speaker at graduation. And then I went to Northwestern where I studied journalism and that's where I thought I was going. And I spent, as you mentioned, nine years, six years at Newsweek and three years at the LA Times.

Kevin Goetz (06:11):

Nine in entertainment, right?

*David Friendly (06:12):

At Newsweek, I was in the business section. So I was writing stories about business, which included sometimes entertainment. But then I got transferred to Los Angeles around 1982 and I got into the LA Bureau and they send out these queries about stories in the business and I would grab every one of 'em, I'll do this, I'll do this. Because I loved show business and I just wanted to write about it. Later after I came to the LA Times where I was a columnist, I had a column called First Look, this is all before the internet. And it was very well read. I decided this is ridiculous. I'm just as smart as many of these people I'm interviewing. I don't want to write about this. I want to do it.

Kevin Goetz (06:57):

Did you always have a love for movies?

David Friendly (06:58):

I did. Well, I had a love for movies, but I had a real love for producing, which I learned came out kind of when I went to Northwestern. I produced 40 concerts in four years and they all sold out. You have kind of a captive audience, but I brought in people like the Beach Boys, a band, Jethro Tull.

Kevin Goetz (07:18):

What venues?

David Friendly (07:19):

I had one 10,000 seat, which was called Magaw Hall, and the other was 3,500, and that was called Khan Auditorium. And I love this job and I tell people to this day, it was my favorite job. I never made a penny. I made the school a lot of money. And when I left I was offered three different jobs at concert promoting companies. There was one in Chicago called Jam. There was one back in New York and I really wanted to do it if I'm being honest. I wanted to do that, but I could not conceptualize calling my father Fred Friendly to tell him I was going to leave journalism and go to be a concert promoter.

Kevin Goetz (08:00):

How happy was Fred that you decided to go into journalism?

*David Friendly (08:03):

I think he liked it. He was very proud of my work at Newsweek. But I think the surprise for me was on the day that I made my deal and the deal was done with Imagine, my first employer, Ron Howard, Brian Grazer. I remember being at my desk with a telephone and seeing my hand shaking because I had to call my dad and tell him I was leaving journalism and going into the movie business, shaking. And I told him what I was doing, told him I was going to work with Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, and he said, if that's where your passion is, you're going to do a great job. You should follow your passion. Wow. And I thought, thank you.

Kevin Goetz (08:50):

Was he a good dad?

David Friendly (08:51):

He was a great dad on certain levels. So in other words, I would tell people more handshake than a hug, but I knew he loved me. It wasn't any question that he…

Kevin Goetz (09:01):

Did he tell you he loved you?

David Friendly (09:02):

Yes. He wasn't as word driven as gesture driven.

Kevin Goetz (09:08):

Can I just make a leap here and say, I bet you're very affectionate with your children.

David Friendly (09:12):

Extremely so.

Kevin Goetz (09:13):

That was my dad too, who just passed away three months ago, was very tactile and very affectionate and he had no father figure. He had two uncles that raised him and there was not a lot of hugging and so forth. But my dad overcompensated I guess, which was really amazing. And I knew that you were going to say that answer.

David Friendly (09:31):

Look, I had such respect for him. There's no bitterness or anything. I just did it a slightly different way. But I will tell you that it was shocking to me years later. I was trying to understand how did I get to the place where I was so anxious about how he was going to respond when his response was perfect and great and liberated.

Kevin Goetz (09:53):

I know the big shoes to fill. And you were worried that you were going to disappoint him in some way.

David Friendly (09:57):

That's right. And the nine years, by the way, I really believe this. It's not rhetoric. The nine years I spent in journalism made me much, much better at the jobs I was going to have as an executive and as a producer.

Kevin Goetz (10:11):

And I bet Ruth was really good for him.

Kevin Goetz (10:14):

I bet Ruth also helped him to understand the idea of following your passion.

David Friendly (10:20):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (10:21):

Something tells me based on how you speak about her, that they were a very good match.

David Friendly (10:25):

They were a great couple. Fantastic. And she's still very sharp. We talk politics. She does the Wordle and I adore her. She's fantastic.

Kevin Goetz (10:35):

Okay, let's move to the transition. So how does, well, I kind of know the answer. Ron and Brian are both friends of mine. Ron was on here as the guest for my 50th.

David Friendly (10:45):

I heard that episode.

Kevin Goetz (10:47):

Wasn't he wonderful?

David Friendly (10:48):

He was terrific.

Kevin Goetz (10:48):

And Brian's coming on in a few weeks, so it's kind of poetic in a way to have you here. Tell me, knowing Brian's curiosity, as I said, I might sort of know this answer, how did they find you? How did they court you or how did you tell them you were interested in wanting to join them?

*David Friendly (11:08):

Well, it was a little bit of everything going on here. So when I was working as a journalist at the LA Times, I would call about 50 people every week, find out what's going on, just a conversation, checking in. Among many others, Brian was a regular and he was so much fun to talk to and sharp and seemed interested not just in his story, but my story, the curiosity thing again. And then I would talk to people like Larry Gordon and there was just a whole group, even Jeff Katzenberg, lots of people when there's no internet and you're writing the main column about the business at the LA Times, you get your call answered very quickly. So as I sort of started to realize, and I had to be very careful about this, I just kind of let a few people know that if the right thing came along, I might want to go into the business. And somebody somehow got that information to Brian or he picked it up himself. I would say he probably was intuitive enough to know. And I got a call one day, he wanted to have coffee out at the Sportsman's Lodge and he said, we're starting this company, Imagine. And we're looking for people that don't have the typical usual baggage.

Kevin Goetz (12:29):

This was the inception of Imagination.

David Friendly (12:30):

1987. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (12:32):

So you were involved with Splash then?

David Friendly (12:34):

No, it was shortly after that. They hadn't formed the company yet, but we went and had this very interesting meeting. I said, I'm very interested. I have enormous respect for you guys. That is the perfect match for me. And I said, look, I'm sure you'll talk to a lot of people, but I looked him in the eye and said, I'll be the first person in and the last person to go home every night. It just came to me somehow that instinctively that that was something.

Kevin Goetz (13:02):

You were going to work your ass off.

David Friendly (13:03):

That Brian wanted to know, how disciplined were you? I will tell you that it was a difficult beginning for me when I joined the company. There was a strike pretty quickly, and I remember one day I was in my office, they were in this building where Tristar was, Century City, and I was up one flight above the offices, but I was in this little office trying to figure out what my job really was.

Kevin Goetz (13:27):

What was your job, by the way?

David Friendly (13:28):

My job was development. I was vice president Development. I was supposed to find material.

Kevin Goetz (13:33):

Who did you report to?

David Friendly (13:34):

Brian. Oh, it was so small at that point.

Kevin Goetz (13:39):

You were supposed to find material?

*David Friendly (13:41):

Find material, and turn it into movies. And then this strike hit, and I remember one day I was in my office and Brian was kind of lurking outside and he came in and he goes, so what are you doing? There was a strike on. And I said, well, it's a little difficult right now because I can't meet with writers, strikes you're not allowed to meet with writers, but I'm trying to figure out what I can do. And he said, don't think we're going to let you just sit around because there's a strike. You better find us a movie. And I can hear him saying it right now as I'm looking at you. And I was, what is he talking about? I just left the LA Times had this big job, everybody called me back right away and I'm going to get fired. So I called an agent, may he rest in peace, Jay Maloney at CAA. They were representing the company. And I said, Jay, you got to help me out. Brian does not have a lot of patience for these things. He said, I'm going to get you a list of every producer in the movie business and some of them will have development that they're not doing anything with. And you can do that during the strike. And I went down the list and I got to the Ds and it was Rafaella De Laurentis.

Kevin Goetz (14:50):

Oh, Rafi, she's great.

*David Friendly (14:51):

And I loved her, Dino's daughter. And I did a profile of her famous profile and her feet are up on the desk, but she doesn't have any socks or shoes on. So you see the bottom of her feet. And I went to see her and I said, Raffaella, I am not leaving here until you give me a script because Brian's going to fire me. And she said, well, she had this Italian accent. I don't have much, but I have this one thing. It's about firemen, but those guys would never do that. I said, sounds great. Let me read it. That was Backdraft. So I read the script, it's pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. So I put it on weekend read. Classic. This is real inside Baseball about how the business really works. I read the script, I put it on weekend read, Monday morning, Brian's running the Monday morning meeting and he's going around the room, did anybody read this script Backdraft?

*(15:43):

That Friendly put on the weekend read. And they're all dumping on it. Oh, I've seen it before. It's cliched this, that. And he gets to me and he says, so friendly. Why'd you put this on weekend read? And I said, I like the brother relationship. I think fire as a character is really interesting. You have to remember there were not many visual effects then. And I don't think the script is perfect by any means, but I think it can be a real movie. And he looks at this group of people in the room and he says, well, Ron agrees with you and he's going to direct it. And all of a sudden you see backpedaling like you've never seen. Well, I did like this. I did like that.  Meeting ends.

Kevin Goetz (16:25):

Oh man,

David Friendly (16:25):

He comes in my office.

Kevin Goetz (16:26):

I could feel that one right now. Geez.

David Friendly (16:28):

Meeting ends. He comes in my office now, remember a week ago he's telling me, you better find something. And he's high fiving me and I'm off to the races and then I just turned it all around.

Kevin Goetz (16:38):

What are the other movies you brought in?

David Friendly (16:39):

Well, I brought in My Girl, which was a script with the worst title. You'd have been furious. The title was I worked on it Born Jaundiced. Oh, that was the original title, which was changed to My Girl based on the song.

Kevin Goetz (16:54):

Macaulay Culkin.

David Friendly (16:55):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (16:55):

And who was the girl?

David Friendly (16:56):

Anna Chlumsky.

Kevin Goetz (16:57):

Yes, Anna Chlumsky.

David Friendly (16:59):

Yeah. Interesting story about that movie is we were casting, we had at that point Dan Aykroyd and somebody called and said, you got to look at Catherine O'Hara, who is great and always in these fantastic, phenomenal. So we went to see Catherine O'Hara, who also happened to be in Home Alone.

Kevin Goetz (17:22):

Home Alone.

David Friendly (17:23):

Brian, very quickly and astutely, this is where the guy's so smart said, well, I'm not so concerned about the mother. That kid's got to be in the movie and paid him the most money he had ever gotten at the time. A million dollars for a young kid. And it was the greatest decision because the movie opened Thanksgiving weekend and opened up to big numbers and we even got a sequel. Well, I bought that script.

Kevin Goetz (17:50):

That movie wouldn't even be made today would, it?

David Friendly (17:53):

Might be made for a streamer or it might be made as a series. Maybe I should be pitching that.

Kevin Goetz (17:58):

Listeners, you heard it here first.

David Friendly (18:00):

My Girl, the series. I like it. But anyway, so I did My Girl, I recognized a good script and we developed it and Howard Zieff directed it who was a veteran director, came out of stills in New York and commercial production and became a great friend. And that was an incredible experience. And then I bought a pitch to a movie called Kindergarten Cop with Arnold Schwarzenegger. I bought that. I mean, I heard the pitch and ran down the hall and said, Brian, this is a winner. And we got that. So in Backdraft, which I mentioned, so I was on a good little run there.

David Friendly (18:36):

And I ended up staying there for seven years and honestly.

Kevin Goetz (18:40):

And became president of…

David Friendly (18:41):

I became president of Production.

Kevin Goetz (18:43):

I mean, come on. That's an incredible trajectory.

David Friendly (18:46):

I'd say it. If Brian was in here, I'd probably still be there if they had let me have the produce by credit. I think coming out of journalism, you have to have an ego, right? You got to believe in yourself. And I wanted it to say produced by. I wanted that credit.

Kevin Goetz (19:02):

Did you get an executive producer credit? Yes. In fairness to Brian and Ron's decision to not let you have that, you were running the company, how could you be on set every day? And you as a producer know better than anyone that PGA mark means something. And you I know are very involved in the movies. I'm curious to know how you thought about that then.

David Friendly (19:23):

Well, first of all, looking back stupidly, I had my eye on the producing part of the job. The real job when you have that job is the question that's going to be asked is what'd you bring in? What got made?

Kevin Goetz (19:37):

Absolutely.

David Friendly (19:38):

And many people who followed me there, I would give him the advice. I said, if you want to stay on.

Kevin Goetz (19:43):

Who followed you, by the way? Was that Karen Kala?

David Friendly (19:45):

Karen Kala was right behind me. And then I'm trying to think of who else had that title. Jim Whitaker. Jim Whitaker and Michael Bostic, then Kim Roth. Yeah, Kim Roth was there. 

Kevin Goetz (19:55):

Erica Huggins.

David Friendly (19:56):

There's a long litany of people that have been there and gone on to do some great things, and it's a great place to learn, fantastic experience. And it was their company. And I get it.

Kevin Goetz (20:09):

And you worked closely with my dear friend, Michael Rosenberg.

David Friendly (20:12):

Michael Rosenberg. Fantastic. And we're still very close friends.

Kevin Goetz (20:17):

So you leave Imagine and now you're onto your next adventure, which I think was what Davis Entertainment.

David Friendly (20:22):

Yes. I came over to be the president of Davis Entertainment and John made me a very generous offer where he said, not only president of the company, you can produce all the movies with me, which is really what I was looking for.

Kevin Goetz (20:36):

What you wanted to do.

David Friendly (20:37):

But it was a very different company, different environment. John and I were very friendly before I went there and I had an incredible run with him.

Kevin Goetz (20:48):

You did, what did you did Dr. Doolittle.

David Friendly (20:50):

We did like four movies in three years.

Kevin Goetz (20:52):

Big Mama's House.

David Friendly (20:52):

We started with Courage Under Fire, Dr. Doolittle, Out to Sea, and Daylight with Stallone. Four movies in three years. It was unbelievable. And all of 'em had my name on it as a producer. So I was very happy. And because of my work on Courage Under Fire.

Kevin Goetz (21:08):

Ed Zwick directed, of course.

David Friendly (21:10):

Yes. I went to Austin, Texas. My son was born on a Sunday. On Monday I got a call from Laura Ziskin, may she rest in peace, who said, I need you in Austin tomorrow, and if you can't be there, we're going to get somebody else to produce the movie. And as you know, I'm married to a film editor and I told her what Laura said, and she said, you better get your ass to Austin. We'll be okay. And this is one of the advantages of working with somebody who's in the business.

Kevin Goetz (21:40):

Absolutely.

David Friendly (21:41):

And somebody who has the same kind of pressures on them. And it was great. Eventually she came down and brought the kids and we had two at that time, but not a lot of women or people would've been very forgiving in that situation. And I went and I had this incredible experience on a movie that was not easy. And when I got back, she said, you're ready. I can get Bill Mechanic to give you your own deal. And I said, let's go.

Kevin Goetz (22:07):

Wow.

David Friendly (22:08):

And I did that.

Kevin Goetz (22:10):

So you left John and started on your own and started Friendly Films. Right?

David Friendly (22:13):

Right. First it was David Friendly Productions, then Friendly Films. But before I left, we had a great run. We got along really well. It was a little bit of the same issue. I kind of wanted my own thing. I don't know where that comes from or why looking back now and with the difficulty and the stress that I went through, I don't know what was driving that, but I used to say either I become a producer and have David Friendly productions or I fail. That's okay. What's not okay is not trying to achieve my goal. That's not okay.

Kevin Goetz (22:51):

Wow. Well, when we come back, we're going to unpack that because I really want to talk about how the journalist becoming executive and following his heart, which really was to be a producer, came to be. We'll be back in a moment. Listeners, The Motion Picture Television Fund is a nonprofit charitable organization that supports working and retired members of the entertainment community. This wonderfully run organization offers assistance for living and aging with dignity and purpose in the areas of health and social services, including temporary financial assistance, case management, and residential living, and has been a crucial lifeline to thousands during and beyond the strikes. To learn more, visit mptf.com. Please join me in helping others in our industry during times of need. There are so many ways to offer support and get involved. Thank you. We're back with David Friendly. David, during the break, you were telling me something that you have to share with our listeners because it's such a great and sort of profound informing moment for you.

*David Friendly (24:12):

Well, Ron Howard and Brian Grazer were my first bosses and the ones that influenced me in my career more than anybody else. And I was just saying to you that I cannot believe all these years later how many times I would be in a difficult situation, someone's screaming, someone's upset, we had a bad screening, or some problem is in front of me that requires immediate action. And I'm constantly hearing their voices in my head and Brian's saying one thing and Ron's like, yeah, but maybe be a little calmer about it. And I hear them all the time and I take their advice and it's served me well.

Kevin Goetz (24:52):

That's marvelous. And that's a great insight. Going back to Courage Under Fire, by the way, I remember hearing about and then reading in Ed's recent book, the story that you hired Meg Ryan and little did you know she was Afraid of Heights or of flying, and she's a helicopter pilot.

David Friendly (25:12):

We had to build a rig. The experts built a rig that sat on a tank called a gimble, and when it's moving, it looks like a helicopter up in the air, but she didn't really want to go up in the air.

Kevin Goetz (25:26):

That had to be one of you. We were talking about having to deal with all of these issues and problems along the way. That was probably something that was like, are you kidding me?

*David Friendly (25:34):

That was the kind of thing that came up as a surprise. But I will tell you the story that I remember most from that movie. We were shooting right next to a very small airport, and Denzel is grilling a young Matt Damon who's a drug addict. Oh yeah. This is in Ed's book. It was an incredible scene. But what wasn't in Ed's book was Matt had lost 47 pounds, new actor doing an incredible job, Denzel's Denzel. It was a great scene, but it kept getting blown by these little airplanes coming by, circling, landing, taking off, and after one really good take that got blown in the middle, my first movie. So I look at the tower, it's only about a hundred yards away, and I said to the AD, can you give me a walkie-talkie? I'll walk over there and maybe the guy will hold the planes till we're done. And he goes, it's worth a try and this is really what producing is all about. So I went over there. The guy was great. He loved the fact that he was sort of tangentially evolved in a movie problem solved and Ed was thrilled. That is what you're up against, especially at the beginning when you're just going by the seat of your pants.

Kevin Goetz (26:51):

I think I've produced 12 TV movies.

David Friendly (26:54):

Of course.

Kevin Goetz (26:54):

And the fact that airplanes are the biggest banes of your existence.

David Friendly (26:59):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (27:00):

Man, what a great story that is.

*David Friendly (27:02):

This is really what I learned from that. And it also happened in journalism. Sometimes you can do all the planning in the world, you can do all the research in the world, you don't know what's coming. So you've got to be able to think on your feet.

Kevin Goetz (27:15):

Give us another example on any film thinking on Your feet quickly, but for the fact that you did that you saved the day.

David Friendly (27:23):

Well, I mean there's so many examples of this, but I can remember for example, being in Ireland in the interior.

Kevin Goetz (27:36):

What picture?

David Friendly (27:37):

Of a set on Laws of Attraction?

Kevin Goetz (27:39):

Julianne Moore and Pierce Brosnan.

David Friendly (27:40):

Julianne Moore, Pierce Brosnan shot all the interiors in Ireland and the exteriors in New York City. So it looked like it was in New York, but it was really in Ireland. And what was really crazy about this movie was that they had a bar on the lot. Ireland. Can you imagine that today? The bar is open and somebody got a little tipsy at lunch and we had to figure out what to do. And it just occurred to me like, this is a different culture. We're not going to run this back to the studio or anything. We're just going to…

Kevin Goetz (28:17):

Deal with it.

*David Friendly (28:18):

Deal with it, have this person go home, have a little private conversation with 'em about it's okay to have a beer after work, but not during work. Get somebody to replace that person for the rest of that day and not fall behind. But that's like routine. What you learn to do is just dance on your feet. And the big thing is not to show a lot of stress. There's stress the minute you walk on the set.

Kevin Goetz (28:42):

But did you have an actor issue that you had to deal with?

David Friendly (28:44):

I had a problem with an actor. We were on the last day of shooting. I'm not going to tell you who it is, so don't ask me. And we had to reshoot one little tiny piece, the last thing we were going to do on the movie, and we brought out the wardrobe for the actor that he had worn earlier in the shoot, but that lighting was off or something. And so we just built a little wall and there were pants and a shirt in that plastic from the dry cleaner.

Kevin Goetz (29:15):

Oh no.

David Friendly (29:15):

And the actor said, I'm not putting these on. Somebody else could have worn them. And I had to have my assistant go over to Nordstrom. We were shooting on the lot and buy new exact replicas of that. That was horrible. I mean, it was just annoying. It’s the end of the shoot. You just want to get done.

Kevin Goetz (29:32):

Absolutely. Oh man. When did you start working with Mark Turtletaub.

David Friendly (29:36):

I worked with Mark shortly after the first term of my producing deal, which was David Friendly Productions. And then we formed a company together called Deep River Productions.

Kevin Goetz (29:51):

And what movies did you do under that? You know where I'm leading this conversation.

David Friendly (29:54):

We worked together for about six years. Obviously the most famous movie we made was Little Miss Sunshine, which is a great story. We made Laws of Attraction, which I mentioned earlier with Pierce and Julianne. We made a movie that did not work, which was an African-American version of the Honeymooners. We produced that.

Kevin Goetz (30:15):

Oh, forgot about that.

David Friendly (30:16):

Yeah, that was a wild experience. We had a good script. We had what we thought was a good idea and Sherry Lansing called me one day when she was running Paramount, and she said, we want to do the movie, but based on everything you've done, we think it'd be a great idea to do it with a black cast. And I go, done, let's do it. I didn't even think about it because when the head of the studio calls you and says they want to make your movie, you kind of say Yes. Looking back, not such a great idea because people that watched the Honeymooners were probably not African-American. And if there was a nostalgic quality to it, they'd want something like what they grew up with.

Kevin Goetz (31:00):

Well, also, let's face it, Eddie Murphy did that spoof from I think his Raw concert, one of those specials that he did. And it was so funny. Norton.

David Friendly (31:12):

Yeah, he was great.

Kevin Goetz (31:13):

I know what you watch. I'm not going to go there, but.

David Friendly (31:17):

Well, we had Cedric the Entertainer who I ran into recently. We had Mike Epps, Gabrielle Union. I mean, we had a great cast.

Kevin Goetz (31:27):

Sherry and I had lunch on Friday and we were reminiscing about some of the old times. For some reason that movie didn't come up.

*David Friendly (31:35):

Not surprising. But you know what? Here's my attitude. If you're going to have a real career, like a career that spans more than a decade or something, you're going to have a little bit of everything. Hopefully you'll have some hits. You may not, and you will definitely have your flops and probably some things in between.

Kevin Goetz (31:55):

Tell us about Little Miss Sunshine. I want to hear how that came to be. And also the genius casting.

*David Friendly (32:02):

It was just a magical experience and it began with us. We were new in town and I'm talking about Deep River. So we were getting things without realizing it after everybody else. So we read this script and Mark and I both responded to it and I said, look, I don't know if it's a big studio movie, but this is a great character study. It's funny. It's about something. And so we bought the script at the time for $150,000 and immediately, this is what I sometimes really hate about our business, but people were calling and saying, that's been seen by everybody and everybody passed. They read about us purchasing it and they want to let you know the mistake you made. And I said, well, that's okay. I think it's great. And so does Mark.

Kevin Goetz (32:52):

Mark, by the way, we should say, is a very wealthy man and so didn't need to have studio backing did he could have made it himself.

David Friendly (33:01):

Well, that's part of the story because initially it was Focus picked it up to develop it, and we were working with them for quite a while with Dayton and Faris attached as directors, and they would want us to cast it with people that were very funny or successful.

Kevin Goetz (33:19):

They were attached to it.

David Friendly (33:20):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (33:21):

But they didn't write it.

David Friendly (33:22):

No, they didn't write it. They came in. Several different directors.

Kevin Goetz (33:25):

Michael…

David Friendly (33:26):

Michael Arndt who's a fabulous writer,

Kevin Goetz (33:29):

By the way. Won the Academy Award.

David Friendly (33:30):

The greatest thing about that script, you can flip it with your thumb and stop at any page and there's something interesting. It's just a magnificent script. But anyway, we were at Focus and then they would pitch us ideas for Robin Williams could play the grandpa. And by the way, instead of it being heroin, could you make it marijuana? I go, well, as far as I know no one dies from overdosing smoking pot. And I finally, one day I went to Mark and I said, Mark, let's get this out of here. Why don't you just write the check?

Kevin Goetz (34:03):

This was at Fox under your deal?

David Friendly (34:05):

Yeah. Well, the interesting thing was this script was developed by us, right? We purchased it under…

Kevin Goetz (34:14):

Oh, you purchased it?

*David Friendly (34:15):

No, no. We purchased it for no studio. But then Focus wanted to get involved. And I got to say Mark was passionate about the movie. We both were. And we got it out there. And the minute we told the town we were making it because Mark was willing to write the check, everybody said yes. Every actor we went to wanted to do it. And that's a great lesson for producers because it's one thing if you are trying to entice the talent to help you get the movie made, it's another thing, if we're making this movie, here's the directors, here are the casting people. Whole different thing. Much easier.

Kevin Goetz (34:57):

What an ensemble you put together.

David Friendly (34:58):

Yeah. And I'll tell this story because he's a good friend of mine, Greg Kinnear I really wanted to play the dad and Dayton and Faris liked him, and we got had a verbal commitment and he started having second thoughts. And we had to do this famous epic lunch out in Malibu. And what we came to find out was he didn't like that in the script he was written as the stepfather. He wanted to be her dad, not her stepfather. And to John and Val's credit, they made the change. Greg came back in the movie, he was actually out for a second, came back in and I think he's marvelous and so is everybody else. Everybody was great.

*Kevin Goetz (35:39):

So there were three talents that you discovered on that movie. Who were they?

*David Friendly (35:45):

I think you're thinking about Abigail Breslin, the little girl, Paul Dano the brother and Steve Carrell, who played the uncle. And the interesting thing about that was, I don't remember who told us, but I specifically remember people telling us how great he was going to be in this upcoming movie, 40-Year-Old Virgin. It hadn't come out yet. It hadn't come out yet. And no, I give John and Val all the credit for, of course we had input as producers, but they were amazing. They came in. You have to understand, they had only done music videos. They had done the Smashing Pumpkins video.

Kevin Goetz (36:24):

So they had everything to lose.

David Friendly (36:25):

Which was amazing. They came in so prepared.

Kevin Goetz (36:28):

That's beautiful.

David Friendly (36:28):

They brought in the music they would play, they had images of what the movie would look like. They knew who they wanted to cast, and they got this movie. They knew how to make it. They knew what the movie should be. For example…

Kevin Goetz (36:41):

Are they husband and wife?

David Friendly (36:42):

They're husband and wife, but they said, we're going to use this band. Devotchka is going to do a lot of the music for us. And I'm like, who the hell's Devotchka? Which means Russian girl or something. And the music is fantastic in them, and they deserve all the credit for having that great instinct on.

Kevin Goetz (37:03):

They knew it caught the tone of the picture.

David Friendly (37:05):

And it was huge.

Kevin Goetz (37:06):

Had a very particular tone.

David Friendly (37:08):

Huge character in the movie. It also had a song in Illinois, that guy that did the play Illinois stuff, John Stevenson. I mean, they were so in tune with this movie, and I give them a lot of credit for that. But ultimately it was the best script I've ever had the opportunity to work with.

David Friendly (37:28):

And people are like, well, can't you find another one? Not that easy.

Kevin Goetz (37:32):

Did you know you were going to get an Oscar nomination?

David Friendly (37:34):

No Chance. All we're trying to do is get the movie made.

Kevin Goetz (37:37):

No, no, I don't mean. Then.

David Friendly (37:38):

Oh, then?

Kevin Goetz (37:39):

Once the movie came out.

David Friendly (37:40):

Oh, I was getting a lot of

Kevin Goetz (37:43):

You would've been majorly disappointed, right?

*David Friendly (37:45):

Yeah. I mean, I remember getting up at 3:30 in the morning. This was when it came out live on Channel five or something, and you're just holding your breath. You've been told, you're in bed. You think it's going to happen. Priscilla, with the Priscilla in our chocolate lab, Coco, and they go alphabetically. And the one that mattered the most to me obviously was best picture. Remember there were only five nominations, then a different time, and they went through them and then they get to, you hear, and there's a scream in Brentwood like waking up the neighbors and we're jumping up and down and Coco's barking.

Kevin Goetz (38:23):

And they mentioned your name in there too. 

David Friendly (38:25):

Yeah, they mention the producers. Yeah, of course. And I think they did it alphabetically by first name. So I was first.

Kevin Goetz (38:30):

Well, I want to just now mention to listeners that you should know now, the reason maybe David wanted to be producer so much is because only producers, not executive producers, not co-producers, associate producers, anything like that. Only producers are the ones that actually can get the Oscar nomination. So maybe some part of you knew that in your brain, knowing that that's where the power lies in the producer on movies.

David Friendly (39:01):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (39:02):

And that's where you wouldn't have had it if you would have not leapt into your own dream.

David Friendly (39:08):

I didn't want to write stories without a byline. So I wanted my byline on my movies. But also the people I was most fascinated with when I was in journalism were the producers. They were the biggest personalities. Like Dan Melnick was somebody.

Kevin Goetz (39:22):

Dan Melnick.

David Friendly (39:23):

I would go over to his house and he lived above Sunset with this great house with a screening room, and I would see him working there in his bathrobe and a pipe or something, and I was like, wow, this is the job I want.

Kevin Goetz (39:38):

I remember I turned, I want to say 25 years old, and I was working at NRG and we went out to La Dome because I worked on my birthday. So Joe Ferrell and Catherine Pora said, you know what? Have a dinner on us. You gave up this. And so a couple of the guys from Energy and I went out to La Dome and Dan Melnick was there, and he bought me and the table a bottle of champagne when he learned that it was my birthday, and it made me think there was some kind of passing of the baton in some weird way. I know I probably read a lot more into it, but it made me feel like so good that such a heavyweight major producer took even an inkling and cared enough. And I've paid that forward. By the way.

David Friendly (40:29):

I think that's classically Melnick. And it was the kind of gesture that I think he was known for. Ironically, when I look back now, he's not even one of the bigger producers that I covered or thought about, but he was such a gentleman and such a kind of cool figure to me. He was what I envisioned a producer to be like.

Kevin Goetz (40:52):

So when we come into a theater for a test screening, we tape off reserve seats for the VIPs who come very late, so they arrive late. So we need seats for them. And Dan Melnick hated us doing that, so he insisted, I don't want any tape. I don't want people to think we're special. So we had to use our jackets. So whenever there was a Dan Melnick test screening, we had to bring our coats and jackets and put them over the guest seats so that we could accommodate his wishes.

David Friendly (41:22):

Yeah, that's a nice story about him because he sublimated his ego. Usually we're getting just the opposite.

Kevin Goetz (41:29):

Oh yeah.

*David Friendly (41:30):

Where are my seats? But those screenings you do, I want to talk about what you do just for a second. I don't think you're really as conscious of how nervous producers are at the first test screening. You kind of see if you let the negative come up, you’re thinking this might be the last one if it fails, and then you let the positive come up and you're like, what if it really works? You are sweating and anxious and you're trying to perceive how it's playing and when it goes well, it is such a rush. And when it goes poorly, it's just awful. Terrible.

*Kevin Goetz (42:08):

Well, I think that it's so funny, Ron Howard and I talked about it in his interview where I said, Ron, it's not like we go out a lot with each other socially and so forth, but we have a very strong bond. And I think the test screening process over these many years has brought us together in a really intimate way because you see people at their most vulnerable. And there's something to be said about that because you become sort of a consigliere or like a priest, a rabbi, or even just a comfort to know, okay, I'm in good hands here. I've got a guy who knows. He's not going to come out with a report card. He's not going to crucify me. He's not going to be that person. He's going to be a friend and an ally.

*David Friendly (42:55):

I've watched you do dozens and dozens of focus groups, and very often there are directors rolling their eyes at focus groups, not Ron Howard. He wants to hear everything, but some people are like, well, I didn't make this movie for them, or they have an attitude, but I watch you and no matter what the person says, you have a kind of neutral response and encouraging. Tell me more about why you feel that way. They just trash the movie, but you don't react, you don't get defensive, and you really are getting true feelings from these people. Whether the filmmakers want to hear that or not, it's a different story. But in the moment you've got them in your hands.

Kevin Goetz (43:33):

I will say though, and I've evolved in this sort of technique, what is I hold people responsible for what they say. So for example, if John in the second row of the focus group says a comment, and then Jane says something else, and then they sort of are conflicting with each other. I might say, John, but before you said this, in fairness to Jane. So because what it does is it creates people to have to really build their case or defend their position. And if it's flimsy, it's going to just fall apart. And as a moderator and the filmmakers listening to it that you don't have to listen to them so much or that comment didn't really have much weight, but if someone can really defend, no, it really was that way because why would that person go into the room when knows the killer's there? Suddenly you have an insight that has much more veracity to it.

*David Friendly (44:28):

Yes. Well, the thing that you get with experience, and I think this is really important and it doesn't get talked about enough, is I remember early on, especially as a new producer, rejection was devastating. I can't believe no one bought this script. I hate this business, blah, blah, blah. Today I expect four or five versions of rejection a week. I'm fine with it. I have proved to myself that my own instinct is the most important thing. And I don't say that egotistically, but if I had listened to everybody else, sure I would have some stuff that I didn't make that didn't work, but I might not have.

Kevin Goetz (45:10):

Where are you emotionally now with the business and not where the business is going, but where is David Friendly now feel like you have a place in this business, it has changed so much and you have had your own company for so many years. Can you speak about that?

*David Friendly (45:24):

Yeah. Look, my 29-year-old son has a couple tattoos. I wasn't particularly thrilled about that, but it's his decision. And I said, I'm going to get a tattoo. I'm going to get two words on my wrist. The first word is acceptance, and the second word is gratitude. So let me explain. I accept that it's a tough business. It was never easy. It's particularly tough now, much harder. It's as hard as it's ever been. I accept that. I have gratitude. I accomplished so much more than I ever dreamed possible, and I'm still hungry. But I have to remind myself to have acceptance and gratitude because no one ever guaranteed David Friendly a healthy income from show business for his entire life. I've had it for 30, 35 years. I'm still trying. I have a project, two projects at Imagine, making a movie, I hope with Ron Howard very soon. If we get a great script, which I hope we do, and another one I'm sort of executive producing with Brian. I'm thrilled, and I'm still trying. I'm still hungry, but there's no bitterness. I don't think it accomplishes anything. It's like it's hard. The barriers of entry are even stronger.

Kevin Goetz (46:44):

Are they? I'm like you, by the way. I would have gratitude tattooed, metaphorically I have it tattooed all over my body. I am always living in gratitude.

David Friendly (46:52):

But don't forget the acceptance part. You can't just have the gratitude. You have to.

Kevin Goetz (46:57):

No, you've just given me some food for thought, honestly. And I kind of love that. But I just want to say that with acceptance and with gratitude, to me doesn't negate the fact that there's still tremendous opportunity and that just because it's different, I don't know if it's more difficult, it's just different. And when things are different, they seem more difficult. So I'm wondering if that's a paradigm you want to think about.

David Friendly (47:24):

Well, I'll say this. I'll give an example and it will surprise you. The thing I'm most proud about in my producing career is not a movie. I optioned a book called La Reina sel Sur, which I saw as a potential TV series because I was having more and more difficulty getting movies made. And I saw all these movie producers are diving into the TV pond.

Kevin Goetz (47:48):

But that's Queen of the South.

David Friendly (47:49):

That's Queen of the South. And that optioning that book, which took a year to get the rights and calling Arturo Perez Riverte's agent in Spain every Friday for a year until they agreed to give me the English language rights led to a show that lasted, it's a miracle, five seasons with Alice Braga, wonderful actress.

Kevin Goetz (48:14):

On USA?

*David Friendly (48:15):

Starting on USA, but then going to Netflix. So everybody thinks it's a Netflix show, and I'm okay with that, but I had the vision, I sold it. It was the most incredible experience because we wanted to incorporate Hispanic directors, Hispanic actors, and we did that. If you go back and look on IMDB, we hired every Hispanic director who was worthy. We didn't hire anybody that wasn't talented and worthy, but here was a great opportunity for them. We had a great cast. It was like the difference between daily journalism and weekly. It is nonstop. If you miss a casting call, like we're going to talk about this actor with the network, they don't wait for David Friendly. They don't give a shit. It's nonstop. And we shot in Malta. We shot the pilot in Mexico City. We shot in Dallas for two years. We shot in New Orleans for three years, incredible experience. And I got into a business I had never done anything in and had something that worked. And honestly, I'm really, really proud of that.

Kevin Goetz (49:24):

That is a great story.

*David Friendly (49:25):

It's perfect example of what we're talking about because what did I do? I adapted to the marketplace. Movies were tougher and tougher. Go over there on tv. There's lots of stuff happening. And I was lucky, but I also think I made my own luck. I had a good idea.

Kevin Goetz (49:41):

Well, that's the acceptance part and also the belief. I remember when I was before Screen Engine, my company today came to be, I worked at a company called OTX, which was bought by a huge conglomerate called Ipsos. And I remember they wanted me to come over and I just didn't want to. And they were offering me stock, a lot of stock in the Ipsos company in the main big company. And I said, no, I'm going off on my own. I'm going to bet on me. I don't want to have stock in your companies, its  conglomerates. A lot of companies kind of rolled up into one. I want to bank on me.

David Friendly (50:21):

Well, you had a great instinct because you understood what you were doing better than anybody else, and you were going to execute it better than anybody else. And you certainly have no lack of energy. You're like the Energizer Bunny. I mean, Kevin.

Kevin Goetz (50:33):

I don't know where I get it from,  man.

David Friendly (50:35):

Keeps going. It'll keep coming back. And I didn't get to tell the documentary story.

Kevin Goetz (50:41):

What's the documentary?

David Friendly (50:41):

It's about Dolph Lundgren. I couldn't believe it. Craig asked me to look at it because I…

Kevin Goetz (50:46):

Craig Baumgarten?

David Friendly (50:47):

Yes. Because I directed and wrote and produced Sneaker Heads, a documentary about the sneaker culture. And Craig hadn't done a doc and he wanted me to look at it, and I thought it was like a favor. What a story. This is going to be incredible. Dolph Lundgren is a great story that many people do not know anything about him except that he's an action star, super intelligent guy. He's really articulate and it has a lot of drama to it.

Kevin Goetz (51:12):

How did you get to be friends with him?

David Friendly (51:13):

So I see, well, Craig is my good buddy.

Kevin Goetz (51:17):

And he's done a bunch of movies with Dolph.

David Friendly (51:18):

A bunch, his manager, he takes the credit.

Kevin Goetz (51:21):

That's what it is.

David Friendly (51:22):

So he asked me to look at it, and then I gave him some notes and I told him Priscilla was going to watch it with me. And then we sat down with Dolph and Craig at Toscana. And of course Dolph is like, forget him, we want her. So they just come back to hire Priscilla to do a. 

Kevin Goetz (51:42):

Isn't that great? Isn't that amazing? And I think you told me before that Priscilla said, what are you going to do a documentary? There's no money in it, whatever. And you said, well, there's opportunity that may come out of it.

David Friendly (51:51):

New relationships.

Kevin Goetz (51:52):

New relationships, whatever. Just segueing for a moment, I want to ask you a different kind of question, which is what was sort of, I don't know, a big mistake you made somewhere in your career that you ended up learning from?

*David Friendly (52:06):

I can answer that one very quickly, very specifically. It was probably the dumbest mistake I made because it was totally unforced error. But I was early in my career at Imagine, we were doing a movie called The Paper, which featured Michael Keaton and Robert Duvall and lots of other great actors. Ron was directing it, and Michael came to the office one day, Michael Keaton and I had actually profiled him for Newsweek in my other career, so we knew each other. And I took him aside and I said, there's a speech at the end of the movie that's really great, and I think it's Duvall’s. You should have that speech because you're the star of the movie.

Kevin Goetz (52:48):

Oh my God.

David Friendly (52:49):

And Michael took that information.

Kevin Goetz (52:52):

This is while you were working at Imagine?

David Friendly (52:54):

I went back to Ron and I still remember where I was. I'm driving east on Wilshire Boulevard in my Toyota Celica convertible, happened to have the top down. And I get a call on my sort of primitive.

Kevin Goetz (53:13):

Thing with the big wire, right?

*David Friendly (53:15):

And it's Ron, and I hear a totally different tone in his voice. I know something's up. And he says, don't ever talk to one of my actors about anything like that ever again. And I go, oh, I'm so sorry. I don't know why I said that. It was a mistake. It will never happen again. And it never did, Kevin. It never did. But there were other people that you and I both know who have been in this room that would've fired me on the spot. And so I appreciate that Ron did not do that, but it was a really dumb unforced error. But what a learning experience.

Kevin Goetz (53:59):

Wow.

*David Friendly (54:00):

I think sometimes you learn the most by making the biggest possible mistake.

Kevin Goetz (54:05):

Oh, there's no question about that. Well, David, we can go on and on and we scratch the surface. So this is going to just be an itch that's not completely scratched. But I will tell you, it has been an absolute pleasure. You and I have been, I would say, friends for three decades.

David Friendly (54:23):

As long as I've been doing this, you've been doing it, and we've been doing it together.

Kevin Goetz (54:29):

David, you're the best. To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our interview today. For other stories like this one, please check out my book, Audienceology, at Amazon or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com. And you can also follow me on my social media at KevinGoetz360. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I'll welcome Imagine Entertainment Executive Chairman, prolific producer, and author, Brian Grazer. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: David Friendly
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)