Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest: Studio Executive and Producer, Elizabeth Gabler
Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:02):

There's a little-known part of Hollywood that most people are not aware of, known as the audience test preview. The book Audienceology reveals this for the first time. Our podcast series, Don't Kill the Messenger, brings this book to life, taking a peek behind the curtain. And now join author and entertainment research expert, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:23):

Studios and producers often look to books and short stories as source material for films and TV shows. But I would be hard pressed to say that there is anyone in the industry that has done this as successfully as my guest today. In her career, studio executive Elizabeth Gabler has shepherded hit films including Life of Pi, The Devil Wears Prada, Hidden Figures, Marley and Me, Waiting to Exhale, and Where the Crawdads Sing. Her unmatched expertise in transforming literary works into cinematic success is a true testament to her vision and her leadership in the industry. Today she's president of Sony 3000 Pictures where she fostered an unprecedented and innovative multi-year media partnership between Sony Pictures and Harper Collins Publishers. Elizabeth or as I call you, Beth, welcome to my show.

Elizabeth Gabler (01:21):

Thank you, Kevin. It is a delight to be with you as always.

Kevin Goetz (01:25):

It's going to be fun and easy, I think with us, as it always is. It's always fun.

Elizabeth Gabler (01:29):

<laugh>. It's always fun and easy.

Kevin Goetz (01:32):

We were just reminiscing before we got on about when we actually met. Now you came into the business in the last year of the seventies as an agent’s assistant, right?

Elizabeth Gabler (01:43):

Yeah. Straight out of college. Had no intention of working in the entertainment industry at all.

Kevin Goetz (01:47):

Did not.

Elizabeth Gabler (01:48):

No, did not. It was a job that I got to basically pay my rent while I was studying for my GREs to get a master's degree in nonfiction writing.

Kevin Goetz (02:00):

Well, first of all, you got your undergrad degree in English literature, didn't you?

Elizabeth Gabler (02:03):

Correct, yes. 

Kevin Goetz (02:04):

At UCSB. That's so interesting to me. And that is so in concert with everything that came afterwards.

Elizabeth Gabler (02:14):

True. True.

Kevin Goetz (02:14):

But you never got your master's. Never did it.

*Elizabeth Gabler (02:17):

No, I never did because when I was there at ICM, my little desk was across the hallway from the script library for ICM, which at the time was definitely along with William Morris agency, one of the most powerful, probably the most internationally powerful agencies in the world. And I was pretty bored 'cause my boss was always, before Zooms existed, running around town, meeting with all the various producers and studio executives. So I would sit there and answer the phone and being the avid reader that I was, because my mother taught me to read when I was three years old.

Kevin Goetz (02:52):

I picture little Elizabeth in her room cuddled up in her bed with a book.

Elizabeth Gabler (02:58):

Yes, it's true. With my little nightlight, which caused me to have to have glasses when I was eight years old. And then my mother also became a librarian later on in her life. So we were very reading conscious family, and I was very excited to read all of those things in front of me, which were the scripts of all the clients that ICM represented. 

Kevin Goetz (03:20):

So hold on before we go there. Hold on. Three books. Gimme three names of, I'm talking early Elizabeth reading that had an influence on you.

Elizabeth Gabler (03:28):

Oh gosh. Okay. Well, one of them would be definitely Little Women.

Kevin Goetz (03:33):

Oh yes.

Elizabeth Gabler (03:34):

Definitely Wind in the Willows. And probably the earlier ones were the Winnie the Pooh books. I was a very big fan of English children's books, so there were so many that I became, I mean, Harriet, the Spy was one of my favorites. The Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basily. Frank Weiler was one of my favorites. I just love stories even going back to The Box Car Children of children in adventures.

Kevin Goetz (03:57):

What about your own daughter?

Elizabeth Gabler (03:58):

We probably read a lot of books about horses for her <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (04:02):

Did she read a lot of what you read?

Elizabeth Gabler (04:05):

No, she was a much more visual type of child and more physically, visually, and artistically motivated. She's a photographer. She's a fine artist.

Kevin Goetz (04:17):

Mm.

Elizabeth Gabler (04:17):

Actually she was much more of a film watcher

Kevin Goetz (04:20):

Who got who into horses?

Elizabeth Gabler (04:22):

Oh, I was obsessed with horses from my earliest days. The Marguerite Henry books were Misty of Chinti and just all of the horse books that you could possibly get your hands on as a child. I was completely.

Kevin Goetz (04:33):

And you did Western or English, by the way?

Elizabeth Gabler (04:35):

English, yes. English writing. Always

Kevin Goetz (04:37):

Annalise, also?

Elizabeth Gabler (04:38):

Annalise also.

Kevin Goetz (04:39):

And you both competed, didn't you?

Elizabeth Gabler (04:41):

Yes, we did.

Kevin Goetz (04:42):

Incredible. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that this year you lost your dear husband, Lee.

Elizabeth Gabler (04:48):

Yes. Thank you.

Kevin Goetz (04:49):

Annalise's dad and oh Lord, he was such a titan in the industry. Can you just tell us a minute about Lee?

Elizabeth Gabler (04:56):

Well, Lee was an amazing force of nature and very protective of both Annalise and I. One of the many gifts that he gave us was to build this magnificent horse farm where we live in Santa Barbara, California, and it's home to three pigs, two miniature horses, two ponies, and then four of my horses. Plus we have a rooster, three chickens, a rabbit, and we have Chardonnay grapes, coffee growing here, avocados growing here. But it's my sanity.

Kevin Goetz (05:27):

You were about to come down here to do this in person. How could you ever leave <laugh> the gorgeousness of what you just described?

Elizabeth Gabler (05:36):

Well, I have a very beautiful office on the Sony lot, which was the original schoolhouse for the MGM child stars.

Kevin Goetz (05:44):

Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney and all those guys.

Elizabeth Gabler (05:46):

Elizabeth Taylor.

Kevin Goetz (05:49):

Ah.

Elizabeth Gabler (05:49):

Elizabeth Taylor. And it is a historical building. It's a beautiful little adobe bungalow that has a lot of the original features. I believe the doors are all original. I know the fireplace in my office is original because I actually have a photograph of Elizabeth Taylor sitting amongst her schoolmates at a desk in my very office and that fireplace is in the back.

Kevin Goetz (06:09):

Did you have to lobby Tom Rothman to get it or did he just give it to you?

Elizabeth Gabler (06:12):

No, he gave it to me as he had it waiting for me. He wanted me to be in there. He had been in there for a while.

Kevin Goetz (06:18):

Well, you and I have a mutual love affair with Tom Rothman. So let's talk about Tom. He's had a major influence on you.

Elizabeth Gabler (06:24):

He has. He is my mentor, and he has been a guiding light and a friend for a very long time.

Kevin Goetz (06:31):

Well, you've done good by him. He's done good by you. And you've maintained this trust and affinity for each other for so many years, and I got to see it up close and personal. There's some great stories in my new book coming out next September called How to Score in Hollywood, where both you and Tom from your own perspectives, share how you got certain movies made, like Life of Pi, which we're going to get into a little later on. Okay. For the moment, I want to ask you, now you enter Hollywood, you are an agent's assistant at ICM, you become a studio development executive how?

*Elizabeth Gabler (07:06):

I realized that my heart was really into the creative process as opposed to the deal making process. And I was sad when a script would be optioned of one of the clients and go off to all these other people to work on. And I realized that my natural inclination was to stay involved in the creative process. And so I was very lucky to get a job as a creative executive at Columbia Pictures during a time when they were incredibly active. My first year there, they made 22 feature films. And this was directors ranging from Ivan Reitman doing the original Ghostbusters film to the original Karate Kid film to Norman Jewison directing. And then a lot of first time directors. They were really running the gamut of filmmakers there. My first dailies that I watched down in the screening room with the head of production and the head of post-production, who were also mentors of mine and taught me a great deal were the dailies of Brian DePalma's Body Double. So try and cut your teeth on that one. <laugh>. Anyway, it was amazing. It was like going to film school, so I did a lot of script notes. I kept track of all the development of all the various executives. I watched the dailies and it was really an amazing experience where I was completely in love with my job and I absolutely immersed myself in every aspect of it. I went to work on the weekends and I loved every second of it.

Kevin Goetz (08:34):

Who was the first person in our business who saw the brilliance of Elizabeth Gabler?

Elizabeth Gabler (08:38):

I don't know if they saw the brilliance, but I can tell you that somebody who was a very still to this day and a very dear friend, and also a very strong role model to me was the producer, Lauren Shuler Donner.

Kevin Goetz (08:48):

Oh yes.

*Elizabeth Gabler (08:49):

One of my first movies that I got to be the baby baby executive on was Joel Schumacher's St. Elmo's Fire starring the Brat Pack. Lauren was a producer, and I just got to see an amazing woman at work every day fighting for her film, being an advocate for her filmmaker, taking care of all these young stars and really caring so much about the story that was about to be brought into the world. And I think that film really created an entire genre of films basically coming out of it, which was the coming of age of 20 something people in our society and went on to be, I think one of the first of many films that are just classics to this day. And obviously working at a studio like that where you got to see so many different kinds of filmmakers, I was exposed to every kind of cinematic style, editorial style to the way they dealt with actors and literally learning what was the difference between one take and another one a director would do 10 takes that looked to me like they were exactly the same, but they weren't. So it was a tremendous education and I loved it. And then a very powerful and wonderful producer by the name of Jerry Weintraub, a legend in his own right, was called upon to restart United Artists Studios, which was basically a library of amazing films for everything from the Bond films to Billy Wilder's films, The Apartment.

Kevin Goetz (10:12):

Rocky.

Elizabeth Gabler (10:13):

Yep. He brought in some really amazing people and a offered me a job and I took it and we started up our little United Artists and he made an, actually a consulting deal with Billy Wilder himself, who had an office in the building in Beverly Hills.

Kevin Goetz (10:32):

On Little Santa Monica.

Elizabeth Gabler (10:33):

On Roxbury, Little Santa Monica. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (10:35):

Remember that? You walk up there, right. And it was a two story, and so many others were in there. Remember Dan Petrie was in there and so many legends.

*Elizabeth Gabler (10:43):

It was amazing. And so we were just so excited to be re-energizing this legendary studio. And Billy would have us all sit in his office and have basically a masterclass on story development. However, we learned quickly that we could never schedule a meeting at any time after we had Billy because we would keep the poor people waiting in the lobby reception area for hours at a time 'cause we couldn't interrupt him. We couldn't say we had to leave. So we had to sit there and be really nervous because we knew that someone was out there waiting for us for a meeting that wasn't anywhere near about to start. Oh, it was truly great. And some wonderful, wonderful films came out of the three years of United Artists. I mean now to this day alone, Roadhouse has been remade, Presumed Innocent was a book that we bought and put together both of those actually starring Jake Gyllenhaal.

Kevin Goetz (11:36):

Oh, right.

Elizabeth Gabler (11:37):

Coincidentally. But Mrs. Doubtfire came out of that, which was actually,

Kevin Goetz (11:41):

Mrs. Doubtfire came out at that time?

Elizabeth Gabler (11:43):

It did. It was an English children's book going back to the subject of book adaptations written by a wonderful woman named Anne Fine, who wrote educational books for young adults and children. And it was a story that she wrote to teach kids about the effects of divorce. And all wrapped up in this great story about this father who disguises himself as a nanny so he can get a job so he can see his children. And that traveled with me to my next job, which was at 20th Century Fox.

Kevin Goetz (12:11):

How did it travel with you?

Elizabeth Gabler (12:13):

Well, it was there and at the time, after three years.

Kevin Goetz (12:16):

It was at United Artists?

Elizabeth Gabler (12:17):

It was at United Artists, yes. And the last two films of United artists were ironically Road House and Rainman, both of which I worked on, and was left there as the last executive, as the studio was being sold. And I was there to basically finish those films. And our head of production, a wonderful man by the name of Roger Birnbaum, was going to 20th Century Fox to take…

Kevin Goetz (12:43):

Terrific guy. 

Elizabeth Gabler (12:43):

To take over as head of production. And Roger, another mentor of mine, said, I want you to come, but you need to stay and finish these two films. And so I did. And then I joined him at 20th Century Fox. And since the United Artists Studio was basically being dismantled, films like Presumed Innocent went to Warner Brothers. Prince of Tides, which was another one of our wonderful projects, went to Columbia. And luckily for me, I got to take my little children's book that no one paid any attention to Mrs. Doubtfire called Alias Madam Doubtfire and take it to Fox with me where we developed it.

Kevin Goetz (13:23):

It was a massive hit.

Elizabeth Gabler (13:25):

It was. But at the time, no one wanted to do it. I couldn't even get a writer.

Kevin Goetz (13:29):

Were you the one that got Robin on it?

Elizabeth Gabler (13:30):

Yes. But it was very difficult to get anyone to actually write it to begin with because it was very close to the time when Tootsie had come out and people thought.

Kevin Goetz (13:40):

It was a, it was a kind of like a me too version of Tootsie.

*Elizabeth Gabler (13:44):

Kind of. Yeah. And also they couldn't understand how the, the mother who was played by Sally Field in the film obviously wouldn't recognize him. And I would say it's a movie <laugh>. There's makeup people, they'll make him look different. And indeed they did.

Kevin Goetz (13:59):

I would have that concern when I was reading it 'cause I know that is certainly a pink flag. You'd say if you didn't buy that, your movie wouldn't work so clearly it must've been something that you had to take great pains at getting right.

Elizabeth Gabler (14:14):

Well, over the years, yeah, we had a wonderful screenwriter, Randi Mayem Singer who was brave enough to take it on. And she, she was fantastic. And then the magical, wonderful Chris Columbus came in. He was very passionate about it. He was a very dedicated father, loved the entire idea of the movie. We had conversations with Robin and his wife, Marsha, about the project, and said, Hey, will you just guys meet this wonderful director who had just finished Home Alone Two? And they said, sure. So he went over and met with them at the Bel Air Hotel where were staying. They didn't live in Los Angeles. And they all saw eye to eye. And it was a friendship that has lasted to this day. Wow. 

Kevin Goetz (15:00):

Were you at that meeting?

Elizabeth Gabler (15:01):

No, I was not. I was sitting at home lighting candles and crossing my fingers and saying a prayer to the movie gods.

Kevin Goetz (15:08):

You knew if Robin said yes, you'd have a movie.

Elizabeth Gabler (15:11):

I knew they would love Chris because everybody loves Chris. And so there was no question in my mind that it was going to be a wonderful meeting of the minds.

Kevin Goetz (15:17):

He really caught the tone just perfectly, because it could be very juvenile, but it wasn't, it was a four quadrant movie.

Elizabeth Gabler (15:24):

Well, because no one could control Robin. And a lot of it, if you look at it now, which it, it definitely holds up all these years later. And it came out in 1993, so it's been 31 years since that movie was made and released. And actually, interestingly enough, Chris's vision was so powerful that the very first cut that he showed us was almost the release cut of the movie. It made so few changes.

Kevin Goetz (15:47):

I worked on it. And I remember it being a nearly perfect movie when you finally tested it.

Elizabeth Gabler (15:51):

It was.

Kevin Goetz (15:52):

You love test audiences, don't you?

*Elizabeth Gabler (15:54):

I do. Well, in that particular one, Kevin, if you remember, people actually fell out of their chairs into the aisles of the theater because they were laughing so hard. And I think that the first family test screening we had of it was a hundred percent for everybody almost. It was across the board. It was, I don't remember ever getting a hundred percent and since <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (16:16):

I think you might've on Marley and Me or Devil Wears Prada, but that was years later.

Elizabeth Gabler (16:20):

Yes, it was.

Kevin Goetz (16:22):

<laugh>, let's face it. You've had some good scores, girl.

Elizabeth Gabler (16:24):

Yeah, we have.

*Kevin Goetz (16:25):

Elizabeth, you've had some good testing scores. So that's why when Elizabeth doesn't get these really stellar scores on each and every movie, it eats at her because she knows that we gotta get 'em there. 'cause she knows the power of the word of mouth. I mean, she's witnessed it. She's been there. And you've been an amazing advocate of the audience and a tremendous supporter of the work that I've done over the years. And we've worked so beautifully together.

Elizabeth Gabler (16:50):

We have, we oftentimes will not do a screening if Kevin is not available and wait until he is <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (16:56):

I know you've done that.

Elizabeth Gabler (16:56):

Not that the rest of your team isn't as wonderful, but I know there's a certain magic you have.

Kevin Goetz (17:02):

Well, it's a subtext that you and I have too, that we know these are the areas that the audience is really bringing to light. And we have to communicate that to the people making the movie. Hey, before we leave United Artists, the call out to Scott Stuber and Nick Nesbitt, who are now reinvigorating the label yet again. I had dinner this weekend also with Paula Wagner and Tom Cruise also with Paula had reinvigorated the label and others have as well. And it's such a great brand and I love that it's in great hands yet again.

Elizabeth Gabler (17:35):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (17:36):

You did move to Fox and had the most success of your career. You were there for how many years in total?

Elizabeth Gabler (17:43):

Fox? 30 years.

Kevin Goetz (17:44):

Wow.

Elizabeth Gabler (17:45):

Yeah, 20 of them were Fox 2000.

Kevin Goetz (17:48):

Now why did they give you your own label, I mean, other than the fact that you had hit after hit, I guess I just answered my own question, but how do you see it?

Elizabeth Gabler (17:57):

I think that they started the various divisions of 20th Century Fox in 1994. And Laura Ziskin, who is a magnificent person and a wonderful producer, was the first person to run Fox 2000. But the problem was, is that they had never truly given it an identity of its own to differentiate it not only to the town, but to the other divisions within the company itself.

Kevin Goetz (18:25):

It's really true because they went from everywhere like Fight Club to Pushing Tin to Ravenous to Anna and the King of Siam.

Elizabeth Gabler (18:32):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (18:33):

I mean that's like, it was, that's not a consistent brand. It was almost a mid-range budgetary level as opposed to a consumer facing identity. Right?

Elizabeth Gabler (18:46):

Well, I think that's absolutely true, Kevin. And I think that part of the problem was that they were making movies that did not have big concepts, but that were more expensive than they should have been. So it was falling in between the cracks of what the main Fox division was and what the Searchlight division was. And so there was a very, very wonderful team of executives that.

Kevin Goetz (19:10):

Oh my gosh. Oh gosh. Kevin McCormick, right? Alec Gardner.

Elizabeth Gabler (19:14):

Yeah. I mean they were all amazing. But what I was going to say was at the main division of Fox, which was being run by Tom Rothman, there were four of us.

Kevin Goetz (19:22):

Let's name their names by the way.

Elizabeth Gabler (19:24):

Okay. Their names are Hutch Parker, Peter Rice, and Sanford Panitch,

Kevin Goetz (19:27):

Wait. And also Chris Meledandri.

Elizabeth Gabler (19:30):

And Chris. Chris was running the family division. The four of us were the senior executives in the main film division.

Kevin Goetz (19:36):

You've all had such lousy careers. I'm so sorry for you.

Elizabeth Gabler (19:39):

We had terrible times. Yes. And we still can't stand each other. <laugh>. Actually, I have a, a beautiful picture of the four of us in costume for Tom Rothman's 70th birthday party, which was held in New York about a month ago. So it was a reunion for all of us.

Kevin Goetz (19:55):

Wasn't it the Rainbow Room?

Elizabeth Gabler (19:56):

It was at the Rainbow Room, yeah. Yeah. And guess who I dressed up as?

Kevin Goetz (20:01):

Mrs. Doubtfire? No, Prada, Miranda Priestman.

Elizabeth Gabler (20:05):

I knew it. I knew it. Okay. My daughter Annalise was Andy Sachs. My daughter. Annalise was Andy <laugh>. She was Anne Hathaway's character. Oh my God. She was my minion.

Kevin Goetz (20:17):

So you did the whole silver-haired swirl?

Elizabeth Gabler (20:20):

I did. Yes, I did. Yeah. And our wonderful coordinator at 3000 pictures, James Galberg, made a mockup of Runway Magazine for us to carry around. So we had our own magazine book,

Kevin Goetz (20:34):

<laugh>. We went to his lacrosse thing the night before. He was honored by Harlem Lacrosse Club.

Elizabeth Gabler (20:40):

Oh, right.

Kevin Goetz (20:41):

Many of you don't know, but Tom Rothman was an All American at Brown at lacrosse and to this day is a passionate advocate for lacrosse. So, we digress. You're at Fox. How do you define the label when you get there?

Elizabeth Gabler (20:54):

Well, I first of all had to sift through a lot of the existing projects.

Kevin Goetz (20:58):

No, no. What did they want you to do? What was the goal of…

Elizabeth Gabler (21:00):

They didn't say. They told me just to fix it.

Kevin Goetz (21:04):

Oh, that's great.

*Elizabeth Gabler (21:04):

It wasn't defined what I was supposed to do, but I went there and I thought, there are 125 projects here and let's see what's good. One thing that I found was that a lot of the projects were kind of lying fallow in development that wasn't going anywhere. So it was really good for me to be able to liberate those, to give them back to their producers and directors and screenwriters to let them have another life in the world. However, there were definitely some of them. One of them called Someone Like You was based on a book called Animal Husbandry, which was being produced by the wonderful may she rest in peace, late Lynda Obst. And we put this movie together with Tony Goldwyn directing it, Hugh Jackman and Ashley Judd. And it was a, it was a delicious little romantic comedy. It was a lot of fun to make, it made money. And look who was in it, <laugh> just at the beginnings of their stardom. And anyway, so that was one. And then another was this wonderful, absolutely captivating project called Unfaithful and Adrian.

Kevin Goetz (22:15):

Adrian Lyne. Yes.

Elizabeth Gabler (22:17):

Adrian had been attached to it. He had not agreed with Laura Ziskin on the path that the movie should take. So he left the project, but when I came, he said, can I come back and make that movie? And so we did. We made it. And I think he did an extraordinary job. Very proud of it.

Kevin Goetz (22:36):

Diane Lane.

Elizabeth Gabler (22:37):

Diane Lane, and Richard Gere.

Kevin Goetz (22:38):

And Richard Gere.

Elizabeth Gabler (22:39):

And Olivier Martinez was the poor murdered love affair. But it was absolutely mesmerizing to work on.

Kevin Goetz (22:46):

And that movie also really caught on.

Elizabeth Gabler (22:48):

It did. Yeah. And to this day, people say they want another Unfaithful. It sort of became one of those touchstone movies 'cause those kind of very hard to find those wonderful sexy thrillers where one person makes a mistake that they regret and the movie is about those consequences. But those were done very brilliantly in the day by the wonderful Sherry Lansing.

Kevin Goetz (23:10):

Who I know you revere like I do.

Elizabeth Gabler (23:12):

I do. Yes, I do. So that was another one that was part of the old Laura group. And then I did bring some films over from.

Kevin Goetz (23:20):

We called it Big Fox, right?

*Elizabeth Gabler (23:22):

One of them was Castaway, which was an original film, not an adaptation. And that was something that was a one line idea of Tom Hanks' and I had been blessed to be the executive in charge of his production deal when his production deal was at Fox. And we found a brilliant writer, Bill Broyles, who absolutely understood Tom's motivation for wanting to turn this idea into a film about him being stuck, a desert island. And, and then we were absolutely, I mean, the blessing of all time was to have Tom reunite with Bob Zumekis. And Bob came on and the movie took three years to make. He shut down after the first period of filming for a year and a half, made an entire film called What Lies Beneathstarring Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer.

Kevin Goetz (24:08):

For Dreamworks.

Elizabeth Gabler (24:09):

Not only did he shoot it, he did post, and it was released, but it was a co-production between Dreamworks and Fox, as was Castaway, because Bob had just made a big deal. His big production deal for Image Movers was just brand new at Dreamworks. And they said, let's join forces and you guys have half of this one and will have half of the other one. And so that's what they did. And so I was, I was the executive on both from the Fox side, and clearly I was the main executive on Castaway since I'd been on it from the inception. And so that's exactly what happened. So the movie was shot in two parts.

Kevin Goetz (24:45):

Wasn't it to do with it losing weight though?

Elizabeth Gabler (24:47):

Part of it was that, yes, it was definitely that.

Kevin Goetz (24:50):

'cause he was on the Desert Island. You shot the first half first.

Elizabeth Gabler (24:53):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (24:53):

Then he lost the weight and then

Elizabeth Gabler (24:55):

He knocked his tooth out and that went to black. And that was the first half, and then came back and shot the second half.

Kevin Goetz (25:01):

My God. When we come back, we're going to talk to Elizabeth more about Fox and some of the other great movies that she worked on. We'll be back in a moment. Listeners, The Motion Picture and Television Fund is a nonprofit charitable organization that supports working and retired members of the entertainment community. This wonderfully run organization offers assistance for living and aging with dignity and purpose in the areas of health and social services, including temporary financial assistance, case management, and residential living, and has been a crucial lifeline to thousands during and beyond the strikes. To learn more, visit mptf.com. Please join me in helping others in our industry during times of need. There are so many ways to offer support and get involved. Thank you. We're back with the incomparable Elizabeth Gabler. Elizabeth, I have to again ask you about some of your other movies because we could spend an entire episode on Castaway. But I'm going to give you a few other names of movies and I want to sort of do a TV Guide version of those so we don't feel like we've left something out. First, Marley and Me.

Elizabeth Gabler (26:28):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (26:28):

How did it come to be?

*Elizabeth Gabler (26:30):

It came to be because I read the book, I am an obsessive dog person. My dogs are like my children, and I love the book so much. And I could see that it was going to be a huge book. And I felt like it was a story about a family and about two people falling in love and starting this family. And there's actually a line that Jennifer Aniston says, where I think Owen's character says it wasn't supposed to be like this. And she says, no, it wasn't, but this is so much better. And that's what I felt was that that was about this life bringing you all these amazing gifts in the form of love and laughter. And I felt like it was an amazing message too, to bring into the world.

Kevin Goetz (27:13):

Weren't you worried that it was going to be so sad that you were going to alienate people? I was inconsolable, by the way. I didn't think I could do the focus group after that test because I was so devastated.

Elizabeth Gabler (27:25):

It was about life though. It was about, the family was given this gift of this amazing dog who was a mischievous giant troublemaker, but filled with love and loyalty to this family. And I felt like it was a message to the world of the gifts that animals can bring to us.

Kevin Goetz (27:45):

And that love, even to experience the level of depth of love for that short period. I always say it's God's cruel joke to give us these dogs in our lives for such a short period of time outweighs any of the pain of the loss because that you do get on with your life. Thankfully, the human body is designed to ultimately do that. But the love, as you said, and the laughter, and there are just so many memories and things that come from that. I understand, I agree that superseded it. But that's not the first time you were up against, how the heck is this going to work? How the heck is this going to be successful? Life of Pi?

Elizabeth Gabler (28:23):

Well, that was a big one, <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (28:26):

Well, it was a big one that almost never happened.

Elizabeth Gabler (28:28):

It's true. It took a long time.

Kevin Goetz (28:30):

And, and according to Tom, but for the fact that you had the vision, had the tenacity, had the tears shed in his office, it wouldn't have gotten made. Tell us about it.

*Elizabeth Gabler (28:41):

It was a book that I read when it was first published. And again, going back to the theme of the human animal connection and survival, which I have seemingly helped work on a few films, I should say. They were made by many people that had the central theme of human strength and human survivability in unforeseen and difficult circumstances. The bond of the character with the tiger and the fact that the two of them helped each other to survive this incredible ordeal on the open seas was something that stayed with me. The book was published, I thought it was really a difficult adaptation, but it didn't stay out of my mind. It stayed with me. And I basically figured, okay, let's try and develop this project. So we did, and we had a couple of different filmmakers on the movie and just didn't seem to come in a way that was doable. It was such an incredibly difficult film to actually execute. And then we heard that Ang Lee was possibly interested in it. And I went and met with him and his first question to me was, why would a studio ever want to make this movie? And I said, well, it wouldn't, a studio wouldn't make this movie with very many filmmakers. In fact, there are probably about three, and you're one of them. So if you are indeed interested in this movie and you are willing to take this giant risk to make this movie, then we should talk about it. So he wanted to think about it. He had other commitments. And I said, look, until you tell me no, I'm not going to give up and I'm not going to go to anybody else. The day you say no, I'll give up. But as long as you keep saying, let me think about it, we're going to hold. And so he did eight months later say, I'm willing to look into getting a writer and and doing a script. And so we had a writer in mind. I thought that this magnificent writer, David McGee, would be perfect for this project.

Kevin Goetz (30:52):

Why was that?

Elizabeth Gabler (30:53):

Well, he had done a movie called Finding Neverland, which was basically a wonderful adaptation. Beautiful. With a child protagonist.

Kevin Goetz (30:59):

And a fantasy element.

Elizabeth Gabler (31:01):

Yes, a fantasy element. And I knew that he would understand the complexities of it. He also, just from a practical nature, lived in New Jersey and Ang was in New York. And I didn't think that a very long distance relationship between writer and director, especially with the strength and passion of Ang’s vision would be a good idea. So just from a logistical point of view, they were right there next to each other. And I thought, well, okay, at least they'll be able to be together while this is being created. And it turned out to be the case, very symbiotic relationship between the two of them. David's skill as a writer skill with adaptation, his genuine gentleness and thoughtfulness and respect for Ang and his ability to collaborate was all so pitch perfect. And we then with the beautiful script, had to figure out how to actually make the film.

Kevin Goetz (31:53):

Well, so wait, I want to go back to something though. I know that tears were involved. I mentioned that. And you had to finally go into Tom and sort of beg him.

*Elizabeth Gabler (32:02):

Well, that was later. The begging happened after we had the script and we were trying to come up with our production plan, and it was in 3D and it was a very advanced form of 3D that Ang was working on that I, to this day, couldn't explain to you. But I just trusted it that he knew what he was doing and that all of our amazing Academy Award-winning visual effects team would know what they were doing to. And they told me that it was just too difficult. The degree of difficulty was too much of a risk and I should let it go. And I had to call Ang, he was in Taiwan at the time, and I called him and said, I'm giving the movie back to you. I'm sure someone in town will make it. It's just we can't do it at Fox. And he said, no, I'm not letting you say no. I'm getting on a plane right now. And he flew to LA and with him, he had a pre-visualization of the freighter sinking, the beginning of the whole story. And it was almost frame for frame what the actual film became. It was even scored. It was scored. So you looked like you were watching drawings of a movie, but in cinematic live action. And he also had the audition tape of our young actor who became our Pi, Suraj. And it was just Suraj reading a survival manual. So it was a monologue of him reading a life raft survival manual. And of him playing the drums, watching this beautiful young Indian woman dance and his facial expressions. So I said, okay. I called Tom and Jim Gianopulos and I said, you need to meet me in the screening room. We had our heads of marketing, we had our wonderful head of international, our physical production, and post-production executives there. And Ang showed them what I just explained to you. And a wonderful man named Tony Sella who was the head of marketing, stood up in his chair and said, there's no way we're not making this movie. And they said, okay.

Kevin Goetz (34:08):

I love Tony Sella. We need to just acknowledge him. I'm still very close with Tony. I see him often. He is the best man.

Elizabeth Gabler (34:16):

He was a champion of it.

Kevin Goetz (34:17):

Not only was he a champion though, but he made it come to life.

Elizabeth Gabler (34:20):

He did.

Kevin Goetz (34:21):

He was one of the most, if not the best creative advertising executive that I've ever worked with.

Elizabeth Gabler (34:27):

And I can echo that with full feeling. So they said, yeah. And I think they told us we had to cut $30 million out of the budget or something crazy like that. And so we did.

Kevin Goetz (34:37):

Alright. My favorite movie of yours maybe, but I've had a few, I mean, I had to think Mrs. Doubtfire or Devil Wears Prada.

Elizabeth Gabler (34:45):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (34:46):

It was, I mean, it was perfection. Perfection.

Elizabeth Gabler (34:50):

It was, to this day, still holds up.

Kevin Goetz (34:52):

And by the way, Tony Sella, that one sheet was one of the most genius one sheets I have ever seen. I don't know the vendor on it, but I can tell you that Tony ultimately was the deciding factor of this Prada high heel shoe with the Devil's Pitchfork. Oh my Lord. But Devil Wears Prada was just magical. How did it all come together? And I know that David Frankel mm-hmm <affirmative>. The director, who I just think has the greatest touch.

Elizabeth Gabler (35:24):

Yes, he does. And it was basically a 50 page partial manuscript when we bought it that Wendy Finerman brought to us. And my colleague, Carla Hacken was very rabid about it. She was a young fashionista of a studio executive, and we decided to take a shot on it, even though we didn't know what the ultimate book, Lauren Weisberger's book was going to be. But the title was so good, and the idea was so good that we started developing it. So what happened at the time was we had draft after draft of the script. It was a very difficult adaptation because the book itself as charming and great as it is, did not have a cinematic narrative.

Kevin Goetz (36:04):

Interesting.

Elizabeth Gabler (36:04):

It didn't really move from one point to the next. And the third act of the book was much different than the third act of the movie ultimately became. So Wendy said, you've gotta meet this director, David Frankel. You've gotta meet this director, David Frankel. So David Frankel flies out from New York. We have this meeting at Fox. He didn't really want to do the movie, she just sort of dragged him out there. But by the end of the meeting, he did want to do the movie. And there was no question that he was the director. We wanted to do the movie. So we continued to develop it, brought in Aline Brosh McKenna, because she was really willing to sink her teeth in. We had had a number of writers who were basically working on it for periods of time.

Kevin Goetz (36:45):

And probably to beholden to the book itself.

*Elizabeth Gabler (36:48):

Well, yeah. And it was one of those that basically Tom Rothman mentioned again here, kept saying, you guys have a melting ice cube. If anyone makes a movie about the fashion business, you're done. You better get this going. So it was really pedal to the metal the whole time. And I also felt like, you know, we talked about it, a lot of different people that we thought would be amazing playing the role of Miranda Priestly. But there was one obviously iconic actress who was the wishlist of the wishlist, and that was Meryl Streep. And so we did go to Meryl and she did meet with David, and she did say to David, I trust you to get the script right. But I meant, and then Anne Hathaway, Annie had wanted to play Andy Sachs, she had about 60 meetings with us. She gave us notes, <laugh>, she was so passionate about it. Finally we went to Tom and said, Tom, it's Anne Hathaway. She's gotta do this part. And he said, okay, go make this movie. And so we did. And at the time, I knew that David would need some help. The movie was in New York, there was so much risk, like it had to be great. We had to do the right job for Meryl Streep. We had to. And so I thought, you know what?

Kevin Goetz (37:59):

And the Emily Blunt casting was kind of genius, wasn't it?

Elizabeth Gabler (38:02):

Yes. And Emily actually had been up for a role, and her first position was to test for a movie we were making based on this wildly successful YA book called Aragon. And they had first dibs on her, 'cause she had just done a screen test. And David Frankel said, I want to cast Emily Blunt. I said, Emily. And I said, well, you can't, because she's, we're waiting to see what the director thinks on this other movie. So he picked somebody else, the Aragon director. And I said to Emily, I go, well, look, you could be sitting in a field in the mud in Budapest, or you could be in New York with Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway and David Frankel shooting the The Devil Wears Prada. I think you got a good deal here. And of course, and then Stanley came along and it was just a magical cast. Everybody was wonderful. And anyway, so I thought, well, let's bring in another wonderful person to join this team. And Karen Rosenfelt, who was a phenomenal, phenomenal studio executive.

Kevin Goetz (38:54):

One of the best, I just want to say in story and in script.

Elizabeth Gabler (38:59):

Yes. And also a complete person of utter calm and composure in the most crazy situations. The first one on the set, last to leave, advocate to the filmmaker. Understood the studio system, had been one of my colleagues at United Artists, had been president of Paramount Production for years. And I just knew she was going to be a great asset to the team. And she was, and also came on Marley and Me and many other movies that I've worked on with her and had the, the blessing of working with her on. But one of my first friends in the business. So I would consider her a sister in many ways. Anyway, so that's what happened with Prada.

Kevin Goetz (39:40):

Wow. Okay. Tell me a project that got away from you.

Elizabeth Gabler (39:45):

Oh, one of my first and most…

Kevin Goetz (39:46):

Look, I, she didn't even pause folks. She has regrets. <laugh>, all those blessings.

*Elizabeth Gabler (39:53):

I actually did. It broke my heart, was Clueless. I developed Clueless from a television pilot with Amy Heckerling at Fox. I read it as a writing sample. It wasn't called Clueless. It was just the idea of this girl in Beverly Hills. And I said, do you ever think about doing this as a movie? And she said, yeah, I know exactly what I want to do, and I want to do the plot of Emma. And I said, oh, I'll do that with you. So we embarked upon the development of what was called many things, including No Worries at one point. And Clueless was the ultimate title. But what happened was we had everything. We had a screen test for Alicia Silverstone. She wanted to cast Paul Rudd. We had a $13 million budget, and no one at Fox would make it. So I had to put it in turnaround.

Kevin Goetz (40:43):

You couldn't make that, but you made all these much bigger movies. No one saw it. They saw it as too limited an audience. Teen girls…

Elizabeth Gabler (40:50):

They didn't know what it was. They just thought it was about a bratty girl in Beverly Hills. But it was as vivid as, I mean, maybe not the actual script that got made.

Kevin Goetz (40:58):

Yeah, yeah. But the movie that I tested kind of took off right from the get go. It worked. It worked right out of the gate. It was almost its new language.

Elizabeth Gabler (41:06):

No, it was a completely new language. And one of my friends who I knew from my riding career, my competitive riding career was a young teenager who went to Beverly Hills High. And I asked her if she would let Amy go to school with her and shadow her to see what the high school was like. And she did. So it was very real in a lot of ways. But it was with this magical Amy Heckerling fairy dust.

Kevin Goetz (41:29):

When Clueless came out. Did you go and say na na na na na.

Elizabeth Gabler (41:33):

Kind of, yeah.

Kevin Goetz (41:34):

Good. Any others that come to mind? Things that you didn't maybe win in an auction or in a bidding war?

Elizabeth Gabler (41:40):

The Horse Whisperer.

Kevin Goetz (41:41):

Oh, I love that movie.

Elizabeth Gabler (41:42):

Oh, that was my…

Kevin Goetz (41:44):

Oh, of course.

Elizabeth Gabler (41:44):

I still take say to this day, to the wonderful agent Matt Snyder. And he still knows that that one broke my heart.

Kevin Goetz (41:50):

Instead, you made Flicka.

Elizabeth Gabler (41:51):

I did <laugh>. Yeah. Remade Flicka.

Kevin Goetz (41:55):

<laugh>. You've had, as I said throughout this interview, just such great success. What's one of the biggest mistakes you've made, and what did you learn from it?

*Elizabeth Gabler (42:05):

Well, it would have happened a couple of times, but the incidents were spread out far enough to where you sort of think, okay, it'll be all right. But it's a very clear thing. And that is what is on the page, goes on the stage. It's always get that script because no matter what, if you're chasing a good screenplay while you're in production, you're headed for a big headache at the end of the line.

Kevin Goetz (42:33):

All mistakes are made in pre-production.

Elizabeth Gabler (42:36):

It's two things. One, you will absolutely see what the filmmaker's vision is, and maybe their vision is brilliant. But if it's not the thing that you think you can make into a successful film, then you have two different ways of making a movie. And that's always difficult.

Kevin Goetz (42:50):

I just want to say one thing, candidly. You have said to me, there have been times when we've worked on movies, and you've said to me basically, God dammit, I knew this, I said this, I didn't know. 

Elizabeth Gabler (43:01):

I don't say those words, Kevin <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (43:03):

Sorry, I'll tone it down. <laugh>.

Elizabeth Gabler (43:05):

Gosh darn it, Kevin.

Kevin Goetz (43:06):

Gosh. Darn it.

Elizabeth Gabler (43:07):

Damn it. To heck. Rats.

Kevin Goetz (43:10):

Rats. Egads, <laugh>. So you'd say to me, I knew that was in the script. That was a script thing.

Elizabeth Gabler (43:16):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (43:17):

It just happens.

Elizabeth Gabler (43:18):

It does happen.

Kevin Goetz (43:19):

But you've learned being a veteran in this, that you can't say that because you just have to fix it. You just have to. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I think if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. Wow. Great. I'm going to steal that.

Elizabeth Gabler (43:32):

And also, you know, I think that just knowing that you have the same vision as the filmmaker.

Kevin Goetz (43:38):

Where the Crawdads Sing, moving onto your next iteration at Sony and Harper Collins. Yeah. Wow. That is something else. That movie was made for how much ish?

Elizabeth Gabler (43:49):

Low thirties.

Kevin Goetz (43:50):

And it grossed how much worldwide?

Elizabeth Gabler (43:54):

140 million, I think. A little bit more than that now.

Kevin Goetz (43:57):

That's a wonderful piece of business.

Elizabeth Gabler (43:59):

It was. It was a very profitable film.

Kevin Goetz (44:01):

Good for you.

Elizabeth Gabler (44:02):

A delight to make in every way. I had the most wonderful experience working on it with such an amazing team.

Kevin Goetz (44:10):

Led by Reese. Right. Wasn't Reese very much a part of that?

Elizabeth Gabler (44:13):

Reese and Lauren Neustadter? Absolutely.

Kevin Goetz (44:15):

Terrific gals.

*Elizabeth Gabler (44:16):

Yes. Reese had picked it as her book pick, actually, the author Delia Owens had only written nonfiction. And I developed one of her nonfiction books about her life in Africa as a conservationist. And her husband at the time, and Delia were living in Africa protecting the elephants. And it was called Eye of the Elephant. It never got made. But ultimately, I was so excited to see that finally she had written a novel. When I saw that Reese had picked Where the Crawdads Sing as her book pick that month and I read it immediately. And I called Lauren, who is a dear friend, and said both of them are, but I called Lauren, you know, Reese's producer, and said, are you interested in developing this as a movie? And she said, well, we're not doing it, but we can. And I said, well, would you want to do it with us? And she said, yeah, absolutely. So those two great producers and our little division…

Kevin Goetz (45:16):

Wonderful

Elizabeth Gabler (45:17):

At Sony joined forces. Actually it was at Fox at the time before it was sold to Disney. But we all joined forces at Sony 'cause we brought the project over there and just found Olivia Newman, this amazing director who had the same vision as we did for it. And it was a labor of love, the whole thing. It was made during Covid, we shot it in New Orleans. Daisy Edgar-Jones was a brave trooper on that movie. And she weathered the storms of all kinds great weather and the, and the swamps and everything like that. But it was truly a lovely experience. And I was very supported by all of the teams at Sony. The marketing and publicity teams around the world were incredible. Tom obviously was right there at the helm, steering the release and everything like that. So it turned out to be a success story for us, and one that was very joyful.

Kevin Goetz (46:06):

And Josh did a beautiful campaign.

Elizabeth Gabler (46:08):

Josh Greenstein was right there. Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin Goetz (46:10):

Just a great campaign. Yes. I want to mention Klara and The Sun as something that is your current project that you're working on. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Directed by the wonderful Taika Waititi.

Elizabeth Gabler (46:20):

<affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (46:21):

And tell us about that. What do we have to look forward to?

Elizabeth Gabler (46:25):

We are very excited. It is a very unique film. It is a very magical film. It's had some transformations over the course of time in its post-production period. He's a genius. He's a very innovative filmmaker. He's like a child in so many ways because of curiosity and his imagination.

Kevin Goetz (46:43):

Truly brilliant. Yeah. Truly brilliant.

Elizabeth Gabler (46:45):

Yes. But on the set, he is a general and he has his amazing teams of people. So he's very focused. First one there, just on the set with the actors. He's an actor himself. So he's very, very involved in performance, beautiful aesthetic. And he tried some things originally that were very, very interesting, but I think has now made the decision to step back from some of the more imaginative choices that he made.

Kevin Goetz (47:16):

And that's also part of the brilliance though, being able to have that 35,000 foot view and say what's best for the overall arc of this thing. That's so interesting.

*Elizabeth Gabler (47:27):

Absolutely. Well, the film stars, Jenna Ortega and Amy Adams and Jenna is absolutely a revelation. I mean, I think people who've been seeing her work on Wednesday and in Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice and other films that she's done will see this luminous presence on screen as this artificial friend who is very much very human-like in her qualities and has empathy and is an empath, and how she is bought by this family. Amy Adams is the mother, a young English actress. Mia Tharia is the young girl who purchases her as her artificial friend. And it's the way that Klara's character basically heals and saves this family. And it's very emotional.

Kevin Goetz (48:10):

Elizabeth, what is the theme here of family? I mean, seriously, so many of your movies have this thing about family and the connection of family. Has that ever sort of dawned on you?

Elizabeth Gabler (48:24):

Oh yeah.

Kevin Goetz (48:25):

I mean, I'm not being goofy when I say that. I'm trying to really think what your leitmotif is. And I think that we might have just hit on it.

*Elizabeth Gabler (48:33):

That's definitely, I'm the oldest of six children. We're very close family. And I think that it's one of the most definitely emotionally prevalent things of my life and themes that I've always wanted to explore in movies.

Kevin Goetz (48:49):

And having Annalise. And that's how, you know, you go back with someone so far when you went through the pregnancy and so forth, <laugh>, and saw all of that stuff from up close. And I want to also, again, bring up Lee and tell us how you're doing with that. He was such a great partner for so many years. A great dad, as you said. So protective. Yeah. You doing all right?

*Elizabeth Gabler (49:10):

Yeah. Yes and no. You're never all right when you experience a loss of that magnitude and a sudden loss. It's been six months since Lee left us and I miss him every minute. And he was my biggest champion. He was my fiercest guardian. He protected me, he protected our family. And so I'm kind of forging on alone. And every day I look at the heavens and say, what should I do now? And I feel like he's there. And then sometimes I feel like he's not there. So it's very difficult. But my work has been a tremendous salvation. My Sony family has been a tremendous support system. My friends, both in the industry and out of the industry, have been a godsend. And my daughter is an amazing person and she's her father's girl. And I feel like she's my partner and my best friend. And I feel very, very grateful that she is so strong and such a wonderful young woman in her own right. And I know a lot of that is because she had such a close relationship with her father too. So it was a gift that he gave me that is priceless and eternal.

Kevin Goetz (50:21):

Well, I hope that you'll consider me part of that extended family because I…

Elizabeth Gabler (50:25):

I do.

Kevin Goetz (50:26):

This has been such a pleasure for me and you've been an inspiration for so many young people and for no, for our industry. And you've given us so many memorable, important films and I couldn't be more grateful. And I love you very much.

Elizabeth Gabler (50:43):

Well, I love you too. And I have relied upon you and your wisdom and your insight and your command of what audiences around the world want time after time after time with the deepest gratitude. And that will always be there. And I can tell you that so many of the successes that you just mentioned of mine, you had no small role in. So, I want to shout out to you about your particular skill that is just unmatched in our industry and, and how grateful we all are for you.

Kevin Goetz (51:17):

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Elizabeth Gabler (51:20):

So all you listening here, take a word from this guy. He is one of the smartest ones around <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (51:27):

To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our interview today. For other stories like this one, please check out my book, Audienceology at Amazon or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com. You can also always follow me on my social media. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I'll welcome veteran producer David Permut. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Elizabeth Gabler
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)