Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest: Director, Writer, Producer, Chris Landon

Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:02):

There's a little-known part of Hollywood that most people are not aware of, known as the audience test preview. The book, Audienceology, reveals this for the first time. Our podcast series, Don't Kill the Messenger, brings this book to life, taking a peek behind the curtain. And now join author and entertainment research expert, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:23):

Receiving feedback can be tough, especially in a creative field. I mean, it's easy to mistake it for criticism, but learning to embrace it and knowing what truly matters helps filmmakers grow. This is just one of the lessons that my guest today learned early in his career. As the son of a very famous television actor, Chris Landon grew up in the entertainment industry, but built his career on his own. First as a writer, then as a director and producer. Through the years, Chris has made a name for himself, mostly in the horror genre, especially in horror comedy. His films include Happy Death Day, Happy Death Day to You, Freaky, Paranormal Activity, The Marked Ones, and We Have a Ghost. Chris, I've had the pleasure of working with you, I think through most of your audience test screenings and I am so thrilled for this conversation. Welcome.

Chris Landon (01:23):

Thank you. I am delighted and shocked. <laugh> and what? And shocked to be here. Shocked. I don't know. I was like looking at all of your podcasts and I was like, oh my God, Elizabeth Gabler. Like you've got like everybody.

Kevin Goetz (01:36):

Oh, I've got some good ones.

Chris Landon (01:37):

And I was like, why is he calling me?

Kevin Goetz (01:40):

Well, I tell you a bunch of reasons and mostly because you've been on a really great run of successful movies. You had one that came out just a few weeks ago called Heart Eyes, which we worked on together. And I was really struck with the sort of the style of that movie. I thought it was so well done and it had a real voice to it. And I have watched you now, I think since Disturbia and you were a writer, you didn't direct that, really come into your own film language. And I think it's great and I'm really proud of you and excited that we've had that opportunity to sort of work together.

Chris Landon (02:18):

Yeah, I mean, you're like the only person I want to see in that theater.

Kevin Goetz (02:23):

<laugh>. That's the truth. Let's go back, which I like to do often to a young Chris. Christopher, were you born as Christian?

Chris Landon (02:31):

I was. Well, my mom tried to have me born as a Christian, but my Jewish father did not want a son named Christian <laugh>. Michael was, my dad was Jewish.

Kevin Goetz (02:39):

Yeah, I didn't know that.

Chris Landon (02:39):

Yeah, he was, yeah, he was Jewish.

Kevin Goetz (02:41):

And your mother was a rather devout Christian, if I'm not mistaken.

Chris Landon (02:44):

She became one post divorce.

Kevin Goetz (02:46):

And that has something to do with also your sexuality, if I recall reading correctly, which is, you and I are both gay men and we came out probably at similar times in that sort of collegey time.

Chris Landon (02:59):

Yeah, that's right.

Kevin Goetz (02:59):

Yeah, A little after.

Chris Landon (03:01):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (03:01):

Yeah. But she wasn't your staunchest supporter. Not at all. <laugh>. So what was that like? Because I know your parents divorced also, right?

Chris Landon (03:09):

Yeah. I mean, my parents divorced when I was very young. I think they separated when I was about five. And had one of those very like messy Hollywood divorces that took forever.

Kevin Goetz (03:19):

But you're the youngest of four children from the same parents. Yes. But then you have a very big sort of Brady Bunch. Yes. Family. 

Chris Landon (03:26):

Yeah, huge family. But yeah, coming out my mom, it's funny, she was not a religious person. In fact, she kind of post separation and divorce, I called it like her Debbie Harry phase. She was wild and crazy. And then one day I remember distinctly, she did not come home at dinnertime and she was in town, so we were expecting to have dinner with her and she didn't show. And then she finally rolled in hours later and she had found God, she was a born again Christian because she had gone to get her nails done. Oh my God. And she unloaded on this manicurist. And the manicurist was like, you need Jesus now. And took her straight to church. And my mom came home a born again Christian and never looked back.

Kevin Goetz (04:08):

Wow.

Chris Landon (04:09):

And it made our heads spin. You must have been what, 10 by then? Yeah, it was probably about about 10 years old and my sister and I both, because we were really the only kids at home at that point. 

Kevin Goetz (04:23):

There was separation. Separation of, yeah.

Chris Landon (04:24):

Yeah. So my older siblings were like out college age. And so the two of us were like, what the fuck is happening? Like, who is this person? And it was something that we had to sort of adapt to.

Kevin Goetz (04:35):

Where was your dad during this time?

Chris Landon (04:36):

He was around. We lived with my dad on the weekends. And my dad obviously found out about all of this and had his opinions about it, but also knew better and stayed out of her personal lives. 

Kevin Goetz (04:47):

Was he remarried by that time?

Chris Landon (04:48):

He was remarried by then.

Kevin Goetz (04:49):

Yeah. So what was it like growing up with having such a famous father, Michael Landon of Little House on the Prairie Fame and other shows as well? He truly was a legendary actor, mostly in television. Tell me about that.

Chris Landon (05:04):

I mean, look, there was sort of the private life that to us felt very normal because it's all you know, when you're sort of born into that situation and most of our time we lived a fairly, I would say, sheltered or insulated life. Like we, and it's very different now too because back then we didn't have social media and I just feel like celebrity was a different thing. I think celebrity could be a more private thing back then.

Kevin Goetz (05:32):

Yeah. Well people protected you. Yeah. And it wasn't social media.

Chris Landon (05:35):

Yeah. That's what people didn't know.

Kevin Goetz (05:36):

What you were up to. It was more mysterious, right?

Chris Landon (05:37):

Yeah. It was more mysterious than the like even at a young age, like you know, there was paparazzi, but it wasn't as aggressive as it has become over the years. Sure. And yeah, we just kind of had relatively normal lives in terms of hanging out and just doing normal stuff. But the difference being when we went out, it changed. That's when you became painfully aware of how different things were for us. And to be honest, I didn't like it. Sure. I didn't love it.

Kevin Goetz (06:07):

How was he with your sexuality?

Chris Landon (06:09):

I didn't have the chance to come out to him. So he passed away when I was 16.

Kevin Goetz (06:12):

Of pancreatic cancer.

Chris Landon (06:13):

Pancreatic cancer.

Kevin Goetz (06:14):

God, I remember that.

Chris Landon (06:14):

It was a big, big, and he was young. He was very young and it was very fast. 'cause he was diagnosed in April and he died in July.

Kevin Goetz (06:21):

Did he tell all you kids right away?

Chris Landon (06:23):

He told us right away. He had been sick for a while, but he was one of those people. This is a good segue. One of those people who refused to go to a doctor, hated doctors.

Kevin Goetz (06:33):

Yeah.

Chris Landon (06:33):

I mean, listen, the pancreatic is the hardest one to beat, but he had warning signals a year before his diagnosis. But he was a workaholic and he kept putting it off and then he started making excuses and thinking like he was diagnosing himself. Like it's ulcers like that. 

Kevin Goetz (06:51):

And what about your stepmom? Was she being insistent or not?

Chris Landon (06:53):

I think she was trying as best anyone.

Kevin Goetz (06:57):

When someone has their mind made up.

Chris Landon (06:58):

Yeah. I mean, my dad was a hard person to move in one direction or another. Sure. He was very opinionated and very stubborn in his ways. And so yeah, by the time he actually went to a doctor because the pain was so great, it was too late.

Kevin Goetz (07:10):

And you are a cancer survivor?

Chris Landon (07:12):

I am.

Kevin Goetz (07:12):

Yeah. But unlike your dad.

Chris Landon (07:14):

I went to the Doctor <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (07:16):

I'll say this story 'cause this is really important. I think. I thank you by the way for sharing this because I usually don't go so early in the show. At least let's get deep.

Chris Landon (07:23):

Yeah, exactly. Into it.

Kevin Goetz (07:24):

Let's go straight to cancer.

Chris Landon (07:24):

It's so fun.

Kevin Goetz (07:25):

In fact, you had kidney cancer. I understand it to be a somewhat rare cancer. And I was just telling you before we went on air that I had three friends.

Chris Landon (07:35):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (07:35):

That have been diagnosed within the last, I don't know, three years. And I just find that so crazy.

Chris Landon (07:40):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (07:45):

And what's scary about kidney cancer is that they call it a silent killer because often hard to detect.

Chris Landon (07:46):

It's hard to detect. And also by the time you feel symptoms, it's usually because it has spread. So it's a tricky one for your <crosstalk>. How, how did it present itself? I got very lucky. So I was about to go shoot We Have a Ghost for Netflix. And I was about to leave and head to New Orleans.

Kevin Goetz (08:04):

Which was so much fun by the way.

Chris Landon (08:05):

Thank you. And I was about to head to New Orleans and I was having lunch with my friend Robert Horn, and he had just come from his doctor and I was like, oh my God, I haven't had a physical in over a decade. I literally just had that thought and I went, I should go get a physical just because. And so he gave me his doctor's info. I went, did the thing, everything was fine. They did blood work. And then I went to New Orleans. I get a call from him in New Orleans and he says, Hey, you have elevated liver enzymes. Now I had my gallbladder removed and sometimes when you don't have a gallbladder, it spikes that number. So I just told him, don't worry about it. This is normal for me. I'm fine. And this doctor was insistent. He was like, you are going, I found a place for you to go in New Orleans. It'll take you five seconds to go in there and do it. And so I popped in and had some tests done and then I was in my hotel room in New Orleans and I got an email from the hospital and I opened the email and it was like, you have kidney cancer.

Kevin Goetz (09:08):

Oh my God.

Chris Landon (09:09):

So my liver was fine. I was right.

Kevin Goetz (09:11):

Had you started shooting yet?

Chris Landon (09:13):

Not yet.

Kevin Goetz (09:13):

Because now you're in a different head space.

Chris Landon (09:15):

I am deep into prep.

Kevin Goetz (09:16):

And you know, you have to be there for your whole cast.

Chris Landon (09:18):

And this is the first big budget movie that I've ever made. And so there's just an enormous amount of responsibility, so much weight on this. What did you first tell? It was hard because it was like 6:00 AM in New Orleans and my husband was back in LA so I text him first. Cody, call out Cody. Yeah. So my husband Cody. So I text him first and then he was the only person I wanted to talk to. Absolutely. And I didn't wanna panic anybody else or scare anybody else, but the problem was it was 4:00 AM for him. So I had like a solid two hour period where I could just go down that awful Google rabbit hole of like, am I gonna die? What is this? Anyways, I.

Kevin Goetz (10:00):

Mr. Horn saved your life.

Chris Landon (10:01):

Mr. Horn did save my life also. You know, amazing talent. So what's funny is that like I immediately went into director mode.

Kevin Goetz (10:11):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. 

Chris Landon (10:13):

And was like, I'm taking care of this.

Kevin Goetz (10:15):

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Landon (10:15):

Wow. And within less than two weeks, it was out.

Kevin Goetz (10:20):

Incredible.

Chris Landon (10:21):

I'd had surgery and had had a, a partial nephrectomy, which is when they removed part of your kidney.

Kevin Goetz (10:26):

And you're a survivor.

Chris Landon (10:27):

Yeah. Knock on wood. But here's the thing.

Kevin Goetz (10:28):

Isn't that great?

Chris Landon (10:30):

I got very lucky. And most people don't. And so this is why now I go around preaching the gospel of vigilance. It's, it's incredible.

Kevin Goetz (10:38):

So cool of you to do because.

Chris Landon (10:39):

Because you don't know.

Kevin Goetz (10:40):

You bet.

Chris Landon (10:40):

And so you've gotta go and you've gotta check your body. You've gotta do it even when you think everything is fine. I work out five times a week. I'm not a drinker. I'm not a smoker. 

Kevin Goetz (10:49):

I thought because your father had it, that that would also present in some weird way and awareness, you know, you would think.

*Chris Landon (10:56):

But it didn't because I also had this idea in my head that like, I live healthier. And also I really had convinced myself that I was sort of physically and genetically taking after my mother. And everyone on her side of the family lives forever. And everyone on my father's side of the family, all the men die young. You're probably destined to live forever. I hope so. No, I don't want to <laugh>. But anyways, this is what I do now. I do tell people all the time, please go and just get physicals, get your blood work done. Absolutely. You can go get tested.

Kevin Goetz (11:27):

Beautiful message.

Chris Landon (11:29):

Just do it.

Kevin Goetz (11:29):

Beautiful message. Not only are it takes no time at all moving people with your movies, but you're moving people with your own personal story. I wanna move to Loyola Marymount. You had a love for film growing up. Not a surprise. You've shared in a number of interviews. I understand that you snuck in your parents' bedroom and watched Psycho when you were like a little boy and freaked out at the shower scene.

Chris Landon (11:51):

Yep.

Kevin Goetz (11:51):

But that had to inform you.

Chris Landon (11:53):

It definitely sort of lit a fuse.

Kevin Goetz (11:56):

When did you decide consciously, I wanna go into the film business?

Chris Landon (12:01):

I don't know if it was like a conscious light bulb moment for me was.

Kevin Goetz (12:05):

Well you decided to go to film school.

*Chris Landon (12:07):

I did. I was obsessed my whole life with movies, specifically horror films. And again, this was sort of a combo, which I would say growing up in the industry, being on set with my dad had a huge impact on me. Not because my tastes were specifically aligned with what he did. I was interested in a very different thing. But he was so happy and fulfilled at work and that was a really cool thing to grow up around.

Kevin Goetz (12:39):

And he directed and produced.

Chris Landon (12:40):

Yeah. And wrote.

Kevin Goetz (12:42):

Incredible.

*Chris Landon (12:42):

And so it just had such a huge impact on me to watch one of your parents loved their work. I think it's really powerful. And then as a another byproduct of my parents' divorce was that my dad kind of like, I don't know, he like wanted to be the cool dad and the no rules dad because he had us on the weekends and I think he wanted to win the cool parent game. And so he made my mom be the heavy. I kind of at a young age just sort of got dropped down a well <laugh> of darkness. Right. In terms of watching stuff that was wildly inappropriate for me to watch. But my dad, like we, he just started letting my sister and I rent. This is back in the day when we had video stores. He let us just rent what we wanted. There were very few off the table movies. I can remember like two of them that he said, you can't watch that. Um, otherwise we just watched everything. And it was all like, this was the eighties and like the heyday of really graphic. 

Kevin Goetz (13:40):

You think he wanted to be a cool dad? Or, or did he wanna, or did he wanna just really expose you to culture and to all sorts of things?

Chris Landon (13:46):

I mean, it was a pretty narrow field of exposure. <laugh>. 'cause it was all horror. He loved horror movies by the way. He did. He did. So he watched a lot of them with us. But you're a mashup guy. I am a mashup guy. 

Kevin Goetz (14:00):

How did you become that?

*Chris Landon (14:01):

So again, at a early age, I was very interested in movies in general. And I remember seeing, I don't remember how old I was, but I saw Terms of Endearment. They had to pick me up off the floor on that one. And I saw that movie, would Somebody Help My Dog Out the Shot? And so I saw that movie and then for a whole summer and I'm like, I don't know, eight, nine. I would watch that movie every single day while I was sitting in front of the TV building Legos. And I was obsessed with it. I cried. I was so into it. I loved how emotional it was, how funny it was, how real everybody felt in it. And so that was sort of this weird balance of stuff that I was into.

Kevin Goetz (14:48):

Very interesting 'cause Jim Brooks, I'm working with him now on yet another one of his, he's such a genius. I mean, he's a genius, but the guy knows how to do exactly what you're talking about. Take us to the edge of almost like absurdity. Yeah. Within the drama. And find the funny in it.

Chris Landon (15:03):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (15:04):

And that's a unique skill. And you did that. Listen, Happy Death Day. I mean, some people could write it off as just a horror movie. But the comedy in that and the irreverence and then in the second one is phenomenal.

Chris Landon (15:17):

Thanks. Like I said, for me it's like if I have a brand, and it's interesting 'cause I actually, someone said this to me. Oh, you make feel good horror. And I thought that was really funny because they don't really necessarily belong together.

Kevin Goetz (15:32):

No, I can understand why they would say that. And I wanna ask you about when you were in Loyola.

Chris Landon (15:37):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (15:37):

You did get a big break within school and in fact you decided to leave school.

Chris Landon (15:42):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (15:43):

And uh,

Chris Landon (15:43):

Much to my mother's chagrin, but yeah.

Kevin Goetz (15:45):

Well, I'm sure. So you had the good fortune of having a success at 20 ish.

Chris Landon (15:53):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (15:53):

Years old. And then things didn't work out as well for you.

Chris Landon (15:57):

No, no. They went to the Shitter.

Kevin Goetz (15:58):

<laugh>. And you moved to Texas, didn't you? 

Chris Landon (16:01):

I did. I moved to Texas.

Kevin Goetz (16:02):

What were you hoping to find there? Give it up?

Chris Landon (16:04):

I think I was giving up at that point. I had been dropped by my agency. So I'm in college, I make a short film. It gets seen by the right person. I find myself with this very sudden and kind of surprising and really bizarre gig because these producers approached me and they said, we have this book called Another Day in Paradise. And Larry Clark, the director, is attached. 

Kevin Goetz (16:36):

He's a interesting filmmaker.

Chris Landon (16:37):

He's super interesting guy. And a lot of his work is pretty astounding. But at the time, I'm 19. And they say, we don't have any money to pay you and we only have half the book. So here's the offer. You write half the script and if we like it, we'll make a deal and we'll figure out how to get you paid. And if we don't like it, tough shit. Move on. Right.

Kevin Goetz (17:05):

You can say that to a 19-year-old.

Chris Landon (17:07):

Absolutely. And to me, I was like, this is amazing. Exactly. It. It was a dream come true. So I was like, absolutely. And so I just made sure that those first 60 pages were the best pages I've ever written at that time, which was not a lot of time. And so they were happy. They officially hired me, they made a deal. And then the crazy part was the book was written by a guy named Eddie Little. And apparently the first half of the book he wrote high. He was a a heroin addict.

Kevin Goetz (17:37):

Oh.

*Chris Landon (17:38):

Yeah. High. High and high. High. And so a lot of it was presented as fiction, but it was very autobiographical. And there was some dark shit in this book. Some scary shit. And then the second half of the book, he was writing from prison. And so I'm waiting for the second, of half of the book to arrive and the second half arrives and I can't use it. It's so strange. It just went off on in a whole different direction. It didn't connect to the other part. Wow. So then the producers are like, well, we can't use this. So now you're gonna have to make the rest up. And then I'm thinking, if this guy gets out of prison, I'm toast. He's gonna fucking kill me. He's gonna find me and murder me. So I'm terrified right in the second half.

Kevin Goetz (18:25):

Did you ever get his blessing, by the way?

Chris Landon (18:26):

No, I did not. He sadly passed away. He passed away a few days after he was released from prison.

Kevin Goetz (18:32):

Oh boy.

Chris Landon (18:32):

He went right out and OD'ed.

Kevin Goetz (18:34):

OD'ed.

Chris Landon (18:35):

And he OD'ed. He did.

Kevin Goetz (18:36):

Your, the success of that, again, as so many things in this business is fleeting.

Chris Landon (18:41):

It was fleeting. And so there was that moment where everyone was like, I don't need school. Who's this 19-year-old who wrote a movie needs school? And I did. And I suddenly was like getting all these job offers and I took a couple of them right away and then I quit school. 'cause I told my mom, I'm like, I've made it.

Kevin Goetz (18:57):

Is that a regret? Looking back?

Chris Landon (18:59):

It's not. I don't regret good. I'm not a regretter. Good. 'cause everything has happened for a reason.

Kevin Goetz (19:05):

Yeah, you bet.

Chris Landon (19:06):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (19:06):

You bet. So I, what if your kids come to you in their sophomore year and say, dad, I'm leaving. You gonna be okay with it?

Chris Landon (19:12):

I'll be okay with it. Good. That's their life.

Kevin Goetz (19:14):

I think I go a little nuts first and then <laugh> and then I, you know, I've had this debate with friends of ours and the reason for me is not because I'm so much about college, although I really think it's important for your development.

Chris Landon (19:27):

Absolutely.

Kevin Goetz (19:28):

But in the company that I own, we have a blind hiring process. So we don't look at names. Right. Because when the DEI initiatives came in.

Chris Landon (19:38):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (19:39):

We decided we're gonna really not be influenced for different jobs and different people's backgrounds or names. So we took it off. But what we had to do is come up with some criteria. The first of course, was a single typo or grammar error on the resume. Got you. In the garbage. We're a research company. Yeah. It's like, no way. Totally, we're detail oriented. If you can't close the parentheses, for example. Right, right. The second was college. If you didn't go to college, you were in the garbage can.

Chris Landon (20:07):

Hmm.

Kevin Goetz (20:07):

Now I could miss some real talent, but how else are you gonna do it? You've gotta have criteria.

Chris Landon (20:12):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (20:12):

Then of course it was the major. And of course after that, not necessarily after that was the school itself. Where did they go? So all of those things have meaning.

Chris Landon (20:22):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (20:22):

In the profession that I'm in.

Chris Landon (20:24):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (20:25):

And for good reason, you're competing against other people. And I think it speaks to completion, completing something.

Chris Landon (20:31):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (20:32):

So I've asked that question a bunch of folks and and and many have left school had gone back at some point.

Chris Landon (20:38):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (20:38):

Even just to say, I finished the frigging thing.

Chris Landon (20:41):

Yeah, that makes sense. For me, it felt like a way station. I was just kind of hanging out, waiting to do what I wanted to do. Because you know, I started making short films with my friends in high school.

Kevin Goetz (20:54):

Oh, you did?

Chris Landon (20:54):

Yeah. So I was already.

Kevin Goetz (20:55):

Mom or dad give you a camera.

Chris Landon (20:57):

Yep. Dad gave me a camera and I was.

Kevin Goetz (20:59):

You asked for it?

Chris Landon (21:00):

I did. You did ask for it. Yeah, I wanted it.

Kevin Goetz (21:02):

Any of your other siblings in the business by the way?

Chris Landon (21:04):

A bunch or I shouldn't say a bunch, but there's a few.

Kevin Goetz (21:07):

Well, I mean, how many total do you have?

Chris Landon (21:08):

So there are eight of us total with the sort of halfs and the steps. Right. Sort of all together in the business. I have my older brother Mike is a writer, director, producer as well. And then my younger sister, Jennifer Landon is an actress and she's on Yellowstone. And she's awesome.

Kevin Goetz (21:28):

Are you close with the whole bunch?

Chris Landon (21:29):

I am. Yeah. We're a really tight knit family. That's so nice. Yeah. And holidays you'd get together. Oh yeah. Every holiday.

Kevin Goetz (21:35):

Where do you live?

Chris Landon (21:36):

I live in Santa Barbara.

Kevin Goetz (21:37):

You love it up there.

Chris Landon (21:38):

I love it. It's beautiful.

Kevin Goetz (21:40):

Did you wanna leave LA for any particular reason? Was it for the kids or?

Chris Landon (21:43):

It was for the kids. It was definitely for the kids. My husband and I. We really felt like there was a simpler version of life.

Kevin Goetz (21:50):

What does Cody do?

Chris Landon (21:51):

He works in healthcare tech. So it's a very different, very different world, but remote. He's remote.

Kevin Goetz (21:57):

That's wonderful.

Chris Landon (21:58):

Yeah. He's based in San Francisco. At least his company's based in San Francisco. Yes. So that's a really easy jump from Santa Barbara. That makes more sense now. Yeah. Yeah. So all of that worked out really well. But yeah, it just was like everything in LA there was a point where it just felt like everything's a fucking battle. I didn't want my kids and I didn't wanna live in my car.

Kevin Goetz (22:16):

I felt that about New York, New York to, and it was so hard to get somewhere.

Chris Landon (22:20):

Yeah. You just went like A to B is tough.

Kevin Goetz (22:22):

Yeah. And then when I got to LA it was like that.

Chris Landon (22:24):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (22:24):

And now I understand what you mean, especially post fires and all of this stuff. You have two kids? Yeah. August and Bo. August and Bo. And do you let them watch horror movies? Hell no. Okay.

Chris Landon (22:35):

Wait, I should take that back.

Kevin Goetz (22:36):

That's so interesting. So you're not a cool dad, in other words.

Chris Landon (22:39):

No. I'm figuring out what the gateway stuff is. The gateway drug. So they have seen stuff.

Kevin Goetz (22:44):

When we come back, we're gonna talk to you about your filmmaking style and all of your incredible successes you've had. We'll be back in a moment. This March, during multiple sclerosis awareness month, we honor the strength of those living with MS, a disease that can take away mobility, independence, and dignity. For me, this battle is personal. I founded the Rhoda Goetz Foundation in honor of my mother, whose battle with MS inspired me to help others facing the same struggles. The foundation provides in-home care and emergency chore service for those in need, because no one should face this journey alone. Visit RhodaGoetzFoundation.org to donate or to learn more. Together we can bring care, comfort, and hope to those who need it most. We're back with Chris Landon. And Chris, I want to ask you about your first break post-fleeing LA to Texas.

Chris Landon (23:53):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (23:53):

You wanted to be maybe a realtor, right?

Chris Landon (23:55):

Yeah. I was just starting to study to get my estate license. 

Kevin Goetz (23:58):

Thank God. Nix that idea. You come back and you stumble into a hit called Disturbia. Yes. Tell us about that.

Chris Landon (24:05):

Yeah, so Disturbia was an idea that I had. 

Kevin Goetz (24:09):

Oh, it came from ytour head? Yeah. That was a good movie. That was a big hit. It was a big hit. And it really was about that next door well neighbor thing. Right?

Chris Landon (24:18):

Absolutely. It's no surprise and no secret that I am a huge Hitchcock fan. Love Rear Window.

Kevin Goetz (24:25):

for those of who haven't seen Rear Window. And I can only imagine.

Chris Landon (24:27):

 Shame on you. Shame. That’s all I have to say.

Kevin Goetz (24:27):

Shame on. Run. Run to see it.

Chris Landon (24:29):

Yeah, it's brilliant.

Kevin Goetz (24:31):

Grace Kelly just crawling up on that fire escape or whatever. Oh my God. So good. I think she had, it's so romantic too. Yeah. But she had like a dress or a skirt, like, God, could anyone be sexier?

*Chris Landon (24:41):

She was my gosh. And amazing. So I was heading to a meeting, I was on the 134 stuck in traffic. And I was listening to, they were talking about Martha Stewart on house arrest and that's where the idea came from. Wow. I was like, Hmm, if I were on house arrest, what would I do? Would I just be fucking going outta my mind? And just one idea led to the next. And then I thought, oh, what if it's a kid? Did you go home and write that night? I did. I did. I wrote it down right away and then I banged out a draft pretty quickly. And then I set the project up at Ivan Reitman's company and my dear friend Jackie Schaffer was instrumental in that happening. She was at the time working with Ivan and Tom.

Kevin Goetz (25:27):

That's Ivan Reitman. May he rest in peace. And Tom Pollock also. May he rest in peace.

Chris Landon (25:30):

Ivan was the best.

Kevin Goetz (25:31):

The best.

Chris Landon (25:32):

So anyway, it all happened really fast. And then the movie got made and it was, I knew it.

Kevin Goetz (25:37):

So it was Ivan's company that did it?

Chris Landon (25:38):

Yeah. Who directed it? It was D.J. Caruso.

Kevin Goetz (25:41):

Oh my God. I love that guy.

Chris Landon (25:43):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (25:43):

Do you know I met D.J. when he was, I believe an assistant to John Badham.

Chris Landon (25:48):

Wow.

Kevin Goetz (25:49):

That many years ago. That's crazy. He had a wonderful career.

Chris Landon (25:53):

Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin Goetz (25:54):

Right. Yeah. I mean, you caught that cool essence in that movie. Did it lead to your directorial debut?

Chris Landon (25:59):

No, the directorial debut was later, was a whole random side thing and a fluke. I actually did not have great aspirations to direct. I really always thought I was just gonna be a writer. And that's where I was gonna stay. It was a lane I was happy in because also I am a bit of an introvert.

Kevin Goetz (26:17):

Which is really hard for me to digest. Because when you see me, we're so gregarious together.

Chris Landon (26:22):

Yeah. I think I have a,

Kevin Goetz (26:24):

When you're comfortable with someone,

Chris Landon (26:25):

When I'm comfortable and I'm in a setting that's comfortable to me, and that's why when I see you, it's like, oh, thank God I have someone in my corner. So I just thought, no, that's not for me. And I'm just gonna keep writing. And a friend of mine, this guy Oren Segal. I had written this really weird script, very bizarre script that kind of sort of came out of me. It was like bile. I had a lot of like weird, angry, angsty bullshit in me. And I was like, I'm gonna write my angry young angsty bullshit movie. And so I did. And it kind of got passed around. It wasn't a horror movie. No, not at all. It was an mythology. It was like a, you understand why I'm asking? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was just like a very bizarre black comedy. Dark as night.

Kevin Goetz (27:09):

That'd be something for Larry, maybe.

Chris Landon (27:11):

<laugh>. Yeah. So I get a call from Oren and he's like, Hey, you know, I've been talking to these people in Louisiana with lots of money and they want finance a movie happens. And they said, great when it happens. And they love your script. And they said, you can direct it if you want. And up to that moment, outside of directing a couple short films, had all but stopped thinking about that entirely. And then suddenly I was like, well wait a minute. These people are gonna give me $5 million to direct this thing. I felt like I would be an idiot to say no. Yeah. So I was like, this is a chance. And so I made the movie, it's called Burning Palms. It's very flawed film. I learned a shit ton.

Kevin Goetz (27:50):

You know, I'm gonna watch the movie now.

Chris Landon (27:51):

<laugh>. Yes. And you will be shocked and horrified. And also like, it's weird now 'cause I've seen it since because my husband wanted to watch it and I felt like I was watching somebody else's work in a strange way because all those feelings are gone.

Kevin Goetz (28:05):

Wow.

Chris Landon (28:05):

And so it was really surreal to watch it. But I also got to work with Zoe Saldana. She was in it.

Kevin Goetz (28:14):

Oh man.

Chris Landon (28:14):

Rosamund Pike.

Kevin Goetz (28:15):

Oh no.

Chris Landon (28:16):

I had a stacked cast. And luckily Zoe lives in my town and we still get to see each other all the time. Yeah. She's amazing. My God, what a performance this. She's incredible. And she's a genuinely good person.

Kevin Goetz (28:27):

My friend Robbie Brenner, also a guest on this podcast. She is very close with Zoe. And I hear just the greatest things about her. Yeah. Just the greatest. She's, she's a good person. So Zoe and Rosamund Pike is what an actress.

Chris Landon (28:37):

And they're both incredible in the movie. They're better than the direction they got Humble. But No, but it was humble. But no, but I was learning a lot. Oh my. And that was the thing. It was a trial by fire for me. And so that was what really?

Kevin Goetz (28:49):

But that was your directorial debut? It was. But between Disturbia and that.

Chris Landon (28:53):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (28:53):

You had written several things 'cause now you were back.

Chris Landon (28:55):

Yes, I had written some stuff, but only one other movie that got made. It's funny. Everything really happened for me after. And again, it was another accidental thing. Which one? Paranormal Activity. Paranormal Activity.

Kevin Goetz (29:12):

Was, what number did you do?

Chris Landon (29:13):

I did 2, 3, 4. The spinoff. And then another sort of weird spinoff after that.

Kevin Goetz (29:22):

Jason Blum and I worked on the very first one together.

Chris Landon (29:24):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (29:24):

And all of the other subsequent ones.

Chris Landon (29:27):

Yeah. I was with Jason the night he saw the original.

Kevin Goetz (29:30):

Slam Dance first?

Chris Landon (29:30):

No, 'cause that was Steven Schneider.

Kevin Goetz (29:32):

Didn't Jason see it there?

Chris Landon (29:33):

Jason saw it at home at his house. And he called me up because he and I had started to sort of become friendly.

Kevin Goetz (29:40):

I was just gonna ask, how did you start with Jason?

Chris Landon (29:42):

And he knew that I was a diehard horror fan. So he called me up and he was like, buddy <laugh>, you know, you gotta come over. So I came over and it was Jason and I and we watched the movie and I think Steven was there, I can't remember. And the movie ended and I just remember.

Kevin Goetz (29:58):

It didn't have that ending

Chris Landon (29:59):

No different ending. But I had

Kevin Goetz (30:01):

That was because of Steven Spielberg. Yeah. In large Measure.

Chris Landon (30:03):

Yeah. And Stacey Snyder I think. Absolutely. But I had absolute, it like got into my stomach, it was so good.

Kevin Goetz (30:10):

Wasn't it?

Chris Landon (30:10):

And I was like, holy shit. I don't know. I remember looking at Jason and I said, I don't know what your involvement in this thing will be, but you need to get in it 'cause it's fucking amazing. And then I was shocked and horrified when I heard that they were planning to just remake it.

Kevin Goetz (30:27):

They bought it to remake it. I, yeah. Which was crazy. Wanna say they spent like, I wanna 400 grand or something like that to buy it with the intent to remake it, not to distribute it. Yeah. And of course they went in and Jason asked for the screening. Yeah, we did the screening. The numbers were quite good.

Chris Landon (30:42):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (30:43):

But there was something at the end that wasn't all together, that sort of punctuation mark that was needed.

Chris Landon (30:48):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (30:48):

And that's when Steven, I guess saw it as well as Stacy. And they added that incredible ending. Yeah. And that boosted it. So we just screened it again. Oh, I bet. And man, all hell broke loose.

*Chris Landon (31:00):

And yeah, I was there for that first moment. But the funny thing was, I had nothing to do with the first movie. And then I got a call from Ashley Bruks, who runs Screen Gems now, and Adam Goodman, she was at Paramount. Yeah. And she was my executive on Disturbia. And again, she was like, Chris loves horror movies. So they called me up and they said, we're gonna do a round table with a bunch of writers, because we've started to shoot the sequel and we're having problems. They had shut production down after about, I think eight days. Paranormal Two. And so they gave us like a document. They didn't have a script, they just had like, I don't know what it was. I guess just like a little sort of beat sheet. Beat sheet thing. Yeah. And so I read it and then I watched an assembly of what they had shot.

(31:41):

And then I sat there at this round table with all these other like big writers. And I just kind of felt outta place. And again, that social sort of awkwardness for me kind of came in. So I sat there with my arms folded and then everybody was very like, it's, it's great. Yeah. This is great. It's gonna be great. And I just kept my head down. And then finally Adam Goodman looked at me and goes, Chris, why are you scowling? And I don't know why I said it, but I looked up and I said, because I think you're in trouble.

Kevin Goetz (32:08):

I love that Renegade baby.

*Chris Landon (32:09):

And he looked at me, I go, it's not scary. Where are the scares? Where are the set pieces? Like where's this thing going? Like, where's the mythology? And in that moment, I pitched him a sequence that's in the sequel. There's this moment where Christie, the mom gets ripped out of the nursery and dragged down the stairs and pulled into a basement. And so everyone kind of got quiet and then the meeting ended and Adam walked over to me and he said, will you go home and write that scene? And I said, sure. So I did.

Kevin Goetz (32:38):

Good man, Adam.

Chris Landon (32:39):

Yeah. And that was the beginning of my involvement in it.

Kevin Goetz (32:42):

Two great executives, by the way. Yeah. Adam and Ashley. Yeah. Terrific.

Chris Landon (32:45):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:45):

But you didn't hold back.

Chris Landon (32:47):

No.

Kevin Goetz (32:48):

And look how another great lesson for young folks listening to this. You know, have a, if you wanna a seat at the table, lean in and, and say what you need to say. Yeah. Say what’s in your mind as long as… Exactly. But say it in an honest way. Yeah. If you're just saying it to be heard, that's not good.

Chris Landon (33:02):

Right. And I've been in those rooms too, where you hear that kind of stuff and it's like…

Kevin Goetz (33:07):

Yeah, please don't, don't need yet another opinion.

Chris Landon (33:09):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (33:09):

It wasn't until, well, by the way, in Disturbia, did that give you enough money to come back to LA to say I should? Is that what happened there?

Chris Landon (33:18):

Yeah, I remember, it's funny, I was paid like, I don't know, scale.

Kevin Goetz (33:22):

Did you get any gross points on that.

Chris Landon (33:24):

I was not, no, no, no. I didn't get any of that <laugh> by the way. I could tell you some really funny stories about all of this, but residuals, that was a different story 'cause this was like, this

Kevin Goetz (33:32):

Was, oh, you were WGA then?

Chris Landon (33:33):

I was WGA.

Kevin Goetz (33:34):

Was that your first job or was it the first one back in when you were 19?

Chris Landon (33:38):

Yeah, that I joined WGA back then, but I had never gotten residuals before.

Kevin Goetz (33:43):

What's the first check you got? How much was it?

Chris Landon (33:44):

It was big.

Kevin Goetz (33:45):

Like what?

Chris Landon (33:46):

I mean, I feel like I opened the check and it was like a $250,000 check.

Kevin Goetz (33:50):

Wow.

*Chris Landon (33:51):

And I remember I stared at it. I was standing at my mailbox outside my place, staring for the longest time because I had, it was fall to your knees when you get it. I keep rereading it. And then I remember jumping up and down my block going back and forth. Absolutely. Just, just jumping up and down. And my neighbors must have thought I was fucking crazy.

Kevin Goetz (34:08):

When I was an actor, I did the West Coast premier of Biloxi Blues and I worked with an actor who was in Karate Kid, the original Karate kid.

Chris Landon (34:16):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (34:16):

And he was broke at that point in his life after Karate kid he could not get a job in and he ran outta money. Yeah. Couldn't pay his rent. Mail comes $27,000 check. Yeah. I remember he said he fell to his knees. As an actor doing a lot of commercials., I'd get residual checks. But man, I, I would call my manager every other day and say, did the check come in yet? Did the, yeah. So I kind of knew what I was getting.

Chris Landon (34:40):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (34:40):

But I'd love a moment like that.

Chris Landon (34:42):

Oh my God, I opening a check for 200 I couldn’t fucking believe it.

Kevin Goetz (34:45):

Wow.

Chris Landon (34:45):

Yeah. It blew my mind.

Kevin Goetz (34:47):

And it enabled you to stay in the game.

*Chris Landon (34:49):

I could just keep going. I could just, and here's an interesting thing, because this has been a, a misconception that I have faced for the better part of my life. Which was people have always looked at me and said, you had a famous father. You had a rich father. So you were always okay. And what people don't know, this is probably the first time I've ever even told anybody this, but like when my dad passed away, I guess it was probably just a month before he passed away, he changed his will.

Kevin Goetz (35:14):

Oh boy.

Chris Landon (35:14):

That was his decision to make. But this idea that like I was sitting on some giant pile of inherited money is false.

Kevin Goetz (35:21):

But even if he hadn't changed his will mm-hmm <affirmative>. The truth of the matter is people think that particularly actors are far richer than they actually are. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Because now your father worked for years and years and so forth. But unless they invested in real estate and other things Right. You know, they will work for hires.

Chris Landon (35:41):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (35:41):

And in the early days they didn't have residuals.

Chris Landon (35:44):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (35:44):

The way they have now. So I have very successful friends who have done quite well, but they have to watch their finances. Yeah. You know, it's just the fact. So I appreciate you sharing that. And also, you are a self-made man. You clearly are your parents' kid and particularly your, your dad's in many ways, probably from the talent that was passed on to you. But you've found your own way. Right. So now you're back in LA. We've got you back, thank God. And how do you find your way to Happy Death Day? Because that was really another turning point for you. Yeah. Now already you were involved with Jason Blum and Blumhouse.

Chris Landon (36:22):

Yeah. So we had done all the Paranormals together. After I finished working on that franchise, I made another Paramount movie called the Scouts Guide to the Zombie Apocalypse.

Kevin Goetz (36:35):

That was wild. That was along like the Cabin Fever vein.

Chris Landon (36:38):

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (36:39):

And that's when you started playing with comedy in your horror?

Chris Landon (36:42):

Yes. It was the first horror comedy that I had made. But the movie bombed.

Kevin Goetz (36:47):

Why did it bomb?

Chris Landon (36:48):

Well, to be honest, I think it was two factors. One, I think that people had sort of reached zombie saturation. Fatigue. Fatigue. Yeah. I think the fatigue had settled it. But also, and this was way before Covid, Paramount had decided to test shortening the theatrical window. And they used my movie as the Guinea pig. So they went, you know, all the theater chains and every single one of them said, go fuck yourself. No. Except AMC. 

Kevin Goetz (37:17):

And so the movie only went to AMC.

Chris Landon (37:18):

Only went to a AMC. By that point, the marketing budget just imploded and so yeah, so the movie never really had a fair shake or a chance. And then I kind of found myself in director jail because it was very pronounced in terms of my phone stopped ringing. No one was interested in hiring me.

Kevin Goetz (37:36):

It really happens.

Chris Landon (37:37):

Yeah, it does happen. And the crazy thing was, years before that, I had been hired to rewrite a script called Half to Death. And I remember I was writing for another director, it was like a music video director. And then the movie didn't get made. It was a bummer because I was really proud of that script 'cause it was a really fun script. And so anyways, after I'm in director's jail, after Scouts and one of the producers, Angela Mancuso calls me, we had lunch and she brought it up and she said, it's such a shame that we never got to do Half to Death. And then I said, well, what's going on with it? And she said, her other producing partner, they were no longer partners at the time, but they were a long time ago. I guess they were about to turn it into a like YouTube series. I don't know, I, it was really strange and it sounded super small. And I said, could we stop that somehow? 'cause they were about to do it.

Kevin Goetz (38:31):

I always like what Jason did, by the way, with the home video sale of Paranormal Activity. Oh, that's so crazy.

Chris Landon (38:36):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (38:36):

He stopped that. Yeah. It was gonna go to Stars or something, right?

*Chris Landon (38:38):

Yeah. It was just something weird like that. And so I just said, please, please pause that. And I went and I dug up the script and I read it and I was like, this is so fun. I can't believe we didn't make this. So I sent it to Jason and I said, just read this. And it was like on a Friday. And he called me on a Monday and said, this is green lit.

Kevin Goetz (39:00):

Wow.

Chris Landon (39:00):

This is green lit. He had already shared it with the studio.

Kevin Goetz (39:02):

What was the budget at that point?

Chris Landon (39:04):

5 million. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (39:05):

Which is what they were playing in.

Chris Landon (39:06):

Yeah. So we made five.

Kevin Goetz (39:07):

Under,

Chris Landon (39:08):

Yeah, we made it for five.

Kevin Goetz (39:10):

Universal distributed.

*Chris Landon (39:11):

Universal distributed. And I remember opening weekend we opened at 26 million I think it was. And went on to gross like a hundred and I forget what it was, 150 on a 5 million. On a 5 million budget. And that was definitely a massive turning point. 

Kevin Goetz (39:30):

Did they immediately greenlight part two? Yes.

Chris Landon (39:33):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (39:33):

Like that weekend? Yeah.

Chris Landon (39:35):

Oh yeah. And I already.

Kevin Goetz (39:37):

Or or even before.

Chris Landon (39:38):

And I had already started working on that one as soon.

Kevin Goetz (39:39):

Did see tracking.

Chris Landon (39:41):

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We knew. But I wasn't counting my chickens and I knew what I wanted to make. 

Kevin Goetz (39:45):

So you already started working on it, huh?

Chris Landon (39:46):

I had the idea for the sequel when I was in post. And so I kind of kept it to myself, but then I started to share it as the momentum started building on the movie. And so by the time the movie came out and was successful, it was full steam ahead.

Kevin Goetz (39:58):

Wow. And that was your next movie?

Chris Landon (40:00):

And that was my next movie.

Kevin Goetz (40:01):

Yeah. How long did it take you to write it before you shot it?

Chris Landon (40:04):

I don't know, four weeks.

Kevin Goetz (40:05):

Wow.

Chris Landon (40:06):

Yeah, I wrote it fast.

Kevin Goetz (40:07):

That's incredible.

Chris Landon (40:08):

Yeah, it was really fast. Incredible. Yeah. And then we were moving,

Kevin Goetz (40:11):

How did Heart Eyes get made? Because that was, to me another, as I said earlier, like a really sort of unique twist on the comedy added to the horror. And I thought I had a, just a fun quality to it.

*Chris Landon (40:25):

So I was working with Spyglass 'cause I was supposed to direct Scream Seven. And so while I was in just sort of dealing with them on that movie, one of the executives there, Chris Stone, brought me a project they had called Heart Eyes. He gave me the script and it was, you know, about a serial killer who murders couples. And I thought like, that's fun. But I saw this opportunity to, as I pitched it back to him, I was like, this could be like the most scary and violent romcom ever made. And I loved that idea because I also, apart from having a love of horror, have grown up with sisters and have grown up watching romcoms and both an appreciation and also like, I hate them at the same time.

Kevin Goetz (41:07):

You like really were right on that fine line of.

Chris Landon (41:11):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (41:11):

'cause that worked. That romance actually worked.

Chris Landon (41:13):

It works really well. And this is a thing that I like to do. And by the way, for the record, Josh Rubin directed that movie I wrote and produced but did not direct. And he directed the shit out of that thing.

Kevin Goetz (41:24):

What did Josh do before?

Chris Landon (41:25):

He did Werewolves Within, Scare Me. He's great. He's Did you find him? My writing partner and I did. Yeah. Got it.

Kevin Goetz (41:31):

So and who's your writing partner? We have to…

*Chris Landon (41:32):

Michael Kennedy. Got it. Yeah. Michael Kennedy and I wrote Freaky together and we wrote Heart Eyes together. So that was the goal, to unpack all the tropes of a horror film of a slasher film, but also a romcom. But going back to what you said, and I try to do this in everything that I do, which is, it's fine to sort of exist in these very heightened mashup kinds of movies, but I always try to ground the characters, at least the central character.

Kevin Goetz (41:59):

Listen, if you don't care about characters…

Chris Landon (42:01):

Exactly.

Kevin Goetz (42:02):

Period. Full stop.

Chris Landon (42:03):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (42:03):

You have a very limited picture.

Chris Landon (42:07):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (42:07):

And I don't think there's anything that you can tell me that would change that. In other words, I don't think there's an example you can give me that's going to change that alchemy.

Chris Landon (42:17):

Yeah. It's funny, I was listening to your Elizabeth Gabler episode on the way here and you said, if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. 

Kevin Goetz (42:25):

Well she said it.

Chris Landon (42:27):

And you said you're stealing it. That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the truth. She's right. It is such the truth and the truth and it's just, and it seems like, it seems like dumb dumb, obvious, but it's not.

Kevin Goetz (42:36):

It's completely the truth.

Chris Landon (42:39):

And so when I, when I was, when I was working on the script, that was sort of a, a drum I kept banging, which was these, these two people, their love story, while we're poking fun at romcoms, this love story still has to be genuine. It has to be real. Or this won't work.

Kevin Goetz (42:57):

Totally.

Chris Landon (42:57):

It can't be too, it can't be cynical. And that's what I try to keep out of my stuff. It's like I poke fun at a lot of shit because I think the world is funny. But I also think that you still have to approach it with affection.

Kevin Goetz (43:11):

What's the greatest lesson you learned from a test screening? An audience? Something that come to mind.

*Chris Landon (43:17):

Yeah. There's two. One is they are wildly intelligent and I think much smarter than a lot of people give audiences credit for. Because they have all grown up with movies, they've all developed a cinematic language. And so they understand things better than I think a lot of people think. They have a shorthand. And so that's one thing. And also, and I learned this on Happy Death Day and you were there. Don't betray them.

Kevin Goetz (43:46):

Don't betray the rules.

Chris Landon (43:47):

Don't betray the rules.

Kevin Goetz (43:49):

You set up rules.

Chris Landon (43:50):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (43:50):

You stick with those rules.

Chris Landon (43:51):

Yeah.

*Kevin Goetz (43:51):

I say it all the time. It's a, it's actually a very important lesson for filmmakers. The audience will turn on you. You can go as outrageous as you want, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. It has nothing to do with that. But if you in the third act decide to change something.

Chris Landon (44:03):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (44:04):

You know, suddenly your superhero who has superhuman powers can walk through walls. Right. And hadn't had the ability to do that earlier. Yeah. You're betraying the rules. This kind of hearkens back to my introduction to you today, which was about criticism. I think you've grown as a man, as a professional to embrace that. If someone is commenting on something, it doesn't mean they don’t like it. Right. In fact, they may like it a lot, but they may feel betrayed by it.

Chris Landon (44:36):

Mm-hmm

Kevin Goetz (44:36):

<affirmative>. Uh, you have learned to listen to criticism in a different way, haven’t you?

*Chris Landon (44:40):

Absolutely. I mean, I think it's a very young mistake to not take criticism or to not be able to really hear it and not take it personally. And by the way, like I still sit through your focus group sitting on my hands because sometimes I wanna strangle people.

Kevin Goetz (44:57):

<laugh>. Well I think most recently I or someone member of the focus group got a finger <laugh>. The bird. The bird, yeah. 'cause sometimes you're just like, oh, come on man, it was right there. I'm looking at you and going. But it's because I'm always got my, always have my eye on like the, you all sitting behind in six rows behind the focus group. I'm watching Chris, I'm watching Jason, I'm watching Cooper, I'm watching what, whoever it may be the studio at, you know, trying to take some cues.

Chris Landon (45:24):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (45:24):

Because it's a dance and I am always sensitive to know 'cause you know, sometimes someone will say the stupidest thing and you're like, oh please.

Chris Landon (45:31):

Sometimes you'll call 'em out, which is my favorite thing.

Kevin Goetz (45:34):

I know. That's when you laugh. I see you laughing. 

*Chris Landon (45:36):

It's so good. And that goes across the board. Like it's taken some time for me to also learn how to like getting studio notes. Like don't be reactive. You're all on the same team. And more often than not in some way or another they're right.

Kevin Goetz (45:49):

What's the dumbest note you ever got? Oh God. You gotta have one that's just like, are you kidding me?

Chris Landon (45:55):

I've gotten one that was like, do they have to be gay?

Kevin Goetz (45:58):

Oh sure.

Chris Landon (45:59):

That one pisses me off.

Kevin Goetz (46:00):

Yeah.

Chris Landon (46:01):

And I think it's stupid.

Kevin Goetz (46:02):

And what was your response?

Chris Landon (46:04):

No, <laugh>. 

Kevin Goetz (46:05):

They don't have to be.

Chris Landon (46:06):

No, the answer is no, I'm not changing.

Kevin Goetz (46:07):

Oh, got it.

Chris Landon (46:08):

No, no, no. They don't have to be gay. I rolled right over. No, I mean that's the one thing that still pisses me off more than anything is that how much homophobia I still encounter in this business.

Kevin Goetz (46:19):

Yeah. That's incredible, isn't it? Yeah.

Chris Landon (46:21):

Yeah. It really fucking pisses me off.

Kevin Goetz (46:21):

Because I think there's a perception still that the general public has some kind of reticence. And you and I both know, 'cause we've tested movies around the country.

Chris Landon (46:33):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (46:34):

It's evolved completely. I mean it's really changed. It's changed. 

Chris Landon (46:37):

Been in the same world.

Kevin Goetz (46:38):

Before we break. And I could stay all afternoon speaking with you, Chris, is I'd like to ask you about Drop. It's coming out soon. Yep. Drop drops April 11th. Tell us about it.

*Chris Landon (46:48):

I call it my grownup movie. It's very modern day Hitchcock. It's about a single mother who's sort of stepping back out into the world for the first time. Goes on a date and she starts getting weird airdrops from somebody in the room and they're kind of playful at first. And she and her date make a game of it. But then she gets one that says, check your security cameras. She goes on her phone and she finds that there's a gunman in her house holding her son hostage.And she…

Kevin Goetz (47:16):

That is such a shitty pitch because it's so much more exciting than that. It is an edge of your seat.

Chris Landon (47:23):

Edge of your seat high octane thriller.

Kevin Goetz (47:25):

I'm not kidding. It is. It is so crazy.

Chris Landon (47:28):

I'm not a good pitcher. 

Kevin Goetz (47:29):

No, I'm being funny. I've never sold a pitch. Now <laugh>, you got a great cast by the way. Your lead, she's phenomenal. Yeah. Meghann Fahy. Woo. She's amazing.

Chris Landon (47:38):

She's fierce. And she's gonna blow minds when people…

Kevin Goetz (47:40):

And then there's her son who is Jacob Robinson.

Chris Landon (47:43):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (47:44):

You shot this in Ireland. Yep. 

Chris Landon (47:46):

Correct. We shot the movie in Dublin.

Kevin Goetz (47:46):

And Jacob did a really good job. And he is a TikTok star. He is. You know, he's Irish. Jacob is very, very good in the movie. And so is the guy that plays her sister.

Chris Landon (47:58):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Violett Beane. Ooh, she's great. She's amazing. Brandon Sklenar is amazing. He is. He is on fire. Right.

Kevin Goetz (48:06):

How did you see him in that 1923?

Chris Landon (48:07):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Kevin Goetz (48:10):

I saw him on screen and I was like, who is this guy?

Chris Landon (48:12):

And that was a big part of the draw. He's so charming. He's obnoxiously handsome. I wanted this date to be a sort of like fairytale like wish fulfillment kind of thing where it's like that's the guy. You know?

Kevin Goetz (48:24):

Exactly. And plus what you did so deftly in the movie is that all the people in the restaurant you're thinking are suspects.

Chris Landon (48:32):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (48:33):

So you had to cast this thing really well. Am I right?

Chris Landon (48:36):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was very…

Kevin Goetz (48:37):

I figured you did.

Chris Landon (48:38):

It's very specific. And even background people you know you want to cast. That's I cast suspicion on. So like everyone was very, although.

Kevin Goetz (48:44):

That's what I'm talking about.

Chris Landon (48:45):

Yeah. Everybody, it was every single person in that room was handpicked and yeah, we spent a lot of time trying to get that right. But it was a blast making it. Wow. 

Kevin Goetz (48:53):

I'm hoping beyond hope that it's a big success. Last question is, what's the biggest mistake you ever made and what did you learn from that?

*Chris Landon (49:04):

I think the biggest one in the most base way, which isn't any anything specific. It's just being dishonest. I think is the worst thing.

Kevin Goetz (49:14):

That you had been dishonest.

Chris Landon (49:16):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (49:16):

And the thing you learned is there was not a good payoff.

Chris Landon (49:19):

No, never.

Kevin Goetz (49:20):

Never.

Chris Landon (49:21):

No, you can't. That's a dead end.

Kevin Goetz (49:23):

And I'm sure you teach it to your kids.

Chris Landon (49:26):

I try.

Kevin Goetz (49:27):

They good guys. They're great.

Chris Landon (49:29):

They're amazing kids.

Kevin Goetz (49:30):

Chris Landon, thank you so much for coming in and talking to me and to us and, and this has been an absolute treat and I hope that I see you with the next one. Thanks, Kevin. Thank you. To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our interview today. I encourage you to see Heart Eyes and the upcoming film, Drop. For more filmmaking and audience testing stories, I invite you to check out my book, Audienceology, at Amazon or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com, and you can also follow me on my social media. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I'll welcome veteran agent, producer, and legendary studio executive, Mike Medavoy. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Chris Landon
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)