Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest:  Mike Medavoy (Legendary Agent, Studio Executive, and Producer)

Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:02):

There's a little-known part of Hollywood that most people are not aware of, known as the audience test preview. Thebook, Audienceology reveals this for the first time. Our podcast series, Don't Kill the Messenger brings this book to life, taking a peek behind the curtain. And now join author and entertainment research expert, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:23):

The Motion Picture Pioneer of the Year Award, the UNICEF Humanitarian Award, the Cannes Film Festival Lifetime Achievement Award, the PGA Vision Award, the Peabody Award, and the list goes on and on. My guest today has been intimately involved with over 300 feature films with seven winning best picture Oscars. He's been an agent, studio chief and producer. Born in China, Russian was his first language. He also became fluent in Spanish in Chile, and later mastered English after moving to the US as a teen. He became an American citizen in 1963. Graduated from UCLA and even served in the US Army Reserve. His entertainment career took off in his twenties and reached tremendous heights. I am so honored to welcome this man, an unbelievable industry titan, and my friend, Mike Medavoy. Mike, welcome.

Mike Medavoy (01:18):

Thank you very much, Kevin.

Kevin Goetz (01:20):

Man. We've been through it, huh?

Mike Medavoy (01:23):

<laugh>? Yes. I do remember when you came to see me when you were just starting your business.

Kevin Goetz (01:30):

Well, here's the thing. You and I have known each other for nearly 40 years. I can't believe how many of the movies I've worked on with you and the incredible support that you've given these movies. I'm gonna cut right to the chase. What is your superpower? What do you see as Mike Medavoy’s genius?

*Mike Medavoy (01:54):

I never considered myself to be a genius. I think what's true about all of us, I think, is that we know what we like. We know what we don't like. I love the idea of seeing something fresh and different, well-made. That engages me.

Kevin Goetz (02:13):

You have an incredible eye, nose, ear for talent. You started as an agent. You were Steven Spielberg's first agent, and so many greats in our business. What did you see in Steven Spielberg that prompted you to say, I wanna represent this guy?

*Mike Medavoy (02:33):

The truth of the matter is that timing is everything, right? And it's the right time at the right place. At the time that I became Steven's agent, he was just coming up and working hard, and he was doing the kind of thing that a young guy should do. He'd go to Universal, he'd work with the sound guy that was there. I think Silver was his last name. He became friends with the muckymucks at Universal, and he got his craft better and better and became better and better. And that's what got him going.

Kevin Goetz (03:12):

Can we go back to your roots as a boy? Your family immigrated to China, or were you born in China?

Mike Medavoy (03:20):

I was born in Shanghai. My father was born in the Ukraine, although at the time, I guess it was part of Russia. So he is Russian. My mother was born in Manchuria in Harbin. So we came from all over the east. And my dad wound up in Shanghai in 1926. His father got a letter from his sister. She had gotten to Shanghai and wrote him a letter and said, you know, I think it's okay if you come to Shanghai because they're good to the Jews here and bring my children with you. And we did.

Kevin Goetz (04:01):

You were obviously not born in the thirties.

Mike Medavoy (04:04):

I didn't come around till 41.

Kevin Goetz (04:06):

Yeah, I was gonna say. Right. But it was during the war. So they got out and had they not, we might not be having this discussion today.

Mike Medavoy (04:14):

Yes. They were lucky enough to go to Shanghai, which was an open city at the time, and a very interesting city.

Kevin Goetz (04:21):

Did you get your education in an American school?

Mike Medavoy (04:24):

I went to the Shanghai Jewish Public School.

Kevin Goetz (04:27):

There's a Shanghai Jewish Public School. That's extraordinary.

Mike Medavoy (04:30):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (04:31):

And then you went to Chile? When?

Mike Medavoy (04:34):

I went to Chile in 1947. 48.

Kevin Goetz (04:37):

So then you learned Spanish?

Mike Medavoy (04:40):

I learned Spanish there. Went to school, learned how to play soccer.

Kevin Goetz (04:45):

Ah, did you speak Mandarin in China at all?

Mike Medavoy (04:48):

At one time I spoke Mandarin. Actually. It wasn't Mandarin, it was Shanghai-nese.

Kevin Goetz (04:53):

Shanghai-nese.

Mike Medavoy (04:55):

Yeah. If you ask Chinese people, they go, you know. Wow. Shanghai is so different.

Kevin Goetz (05:00):

You, you must be from the old school. Yeah. And then you learned Spanish. Can you still navigate today?

Mike Medavoy (05:06):

Well, I went to an English school in Chile where the only thing you could do during school hours was speak in English. And I was trying to learn Spanish. So if the only thing that you could do is speak in English in those hours, usually about four or five hours. And if you didn't speak in English and somebody caught you speaking in Spanish, they would give you a little ball, which, if you had the ball at the end of the day, you had to learn by memory, a poem in English.

Kevin Goetz (05:41):

<laugh>. That's a good punishment. <laugh>. Right.

Mike Medavoy (05:44):

So you know, there you were learning Shakespeare.

Kevin Goetz (05:47):

How did you get to UCLA from Chile?

Mike Medavoy (05:50):

Well, I had a grandfather and my two aunts who on the exit out of the country, wound up going to Hawaii. And if you remember Hawaii at the time, this is post-1941, it was an American territory, but not a state. And when Hawaii became a state, they became Americans. And that way when we got out, which is now 1957, 58, we went to join them. And they were living in Long Beach, California.

Kevin Goetz (06:23):

And you wanted to be in the movie business then, or did you have any idea of it?

Mike Medavoy (06:29):

No, I had no idea what I was gonna do. I mean, I loved movies

Kevin Goetz (06:33):

As a kid you loved movies?

Mike Medavoy (06:35):

I did. I went to movies all the time.

Kevin Goetz (06:37):

Chilean movies or American movies?

Mike Medavoy (06:39):

They're American movies. They're played everywhere.

Kevin Goetz (06:42):

What was a movie that had a big effect on you as a kid, A movie that you felt really informed you?

Mike Medavoy (06:48):

There were a lot of Errol Flynn movies that I liked. It's the usual movies that everybody in the world liked. And that was great because the two hours that I could spend in a movie theater, I could escape everything.

Kevin Goetz (07:02):

Did you have a good childhood?

Mike Medavoy (07:04):

I did have a good childhood. I mean, I didn't know where I was gonna go and what I was gonna do. My dad started off as a garage mechanic, and then he became the head of the telephone company in Shanghai. So now when I go to Shanghai, I can go to the telephone company and there's a statue of my dad.

Kevin Goetz (07:23):

Really?

Mike Medavoy (07:24):

Yeah. I mean, I have one at home here. You know, it was Russian Jews on the run.

Kevin Goetz (07:31):

What was the first moment where you realized, I wanna get into the business? You became a citizen, I know. In 63, I believe, right?

Mike Medavoy (07:40):

Yes, I did. And I became a camp director in Brentwood at the Brentwood School. And I was actually, I had been a camp director in Chile too, working in an international camp where everybody spoke different languages, including English, obviously. And it was kind of interesting because the camp in Chile was run by an American, and the American was an extraordinary human being. And he probably did change my life as the people in the camp. But he himself also came to America later on and taught at UCLA when I was going there, taught in the English department. And I was approached at a camp here by a guy who said, Hey, would you be interested in being in the movie business? I said, why not? Of course. So I went over to Universal, met with Al Dorskind, who was running the plant, and he said, Hey, are you interested in the film business? I said, yes, I am. Who wouldn't? Right? <laugh> at that point.

Kevin Goetz (08:41):

Yeah. Bit of a loaded question.

Mike Medavoy (08:44):

And he said, well, what can you do? I said, well, I speak several languages. I'm a graduate of UCLA. I graduated with honors.

Kevin Goetz (08:55):

What'd you major in?

*Mike Medavoy (08:56):

History and political science. And he said, well go up and meet the international guys. So I did. And they didn't have a job. And so I said, well, in that case, I'll take any job. Just gimme a job and I'll start here. And I went into the mail room, and there I was in the mail room at Universal Studios, 1964. And everybody in the mail room became friends. So there was Walter Hill and John Badham.

Kevin Goetz (09:25):

Oh Lord. I love it.

Mike Medavoy (09:27):

There were a whole bunch of us, and we all had careers, became friends. The only guy that didn't have anything going was the guy who ran the mail room, who was basically, that was his job.

Kevin Goetz (09:41):

Yeah. He was happy with that.

Mike Medavoy (09:42):

Right. The rest of us were all trying to get out.

Kevin Goetz (09:45):

How'd you get to the agency?

*Mike Medavoy (09:47):

Well, I got an offer from somebody as a casting director. I used to be approached by agents all the time. And I was working for Jack Webb at the time, and Bob Hope, both. I was on the Chrysler Hour, and this guy, Bill Robinson, came up to me and said, Hey, are you interested in being in the agency business? I think you make a good agent. And I said, yeah, I would like it. So I went to see Jack Webb to tell him that I wanted to leave and go in the agency business. Oh God, don't do that. He said, that's a terrible idea, <laugh>. I said, well, no, I really wanna do it. So he said, well, I'm gonna set up a meeting for you to meet Lou Wasserman and, and you know, you can talk to him. Maybe he can find you another job. So I went to see Lou Wasserman and then…

Kevin Goetz (10:33):

God at 20 whatever years old.

*Mike Medavoy (10:36):

Yeah. He said, what do you wanna do? I said, well, I can't think of anything here that I wanna do, 'cause I'm not really qualified for anything. And I said, you were an agent. He said, well, is there any job that you want? And I said, well, the only job I want is one you're not gonna give me, so I'm just gonna keep moving. He said, what's that? I said, yours, to which he laughed and sent me out. And I went to work for Bill Robinson first, and one of the things I learned rather rapidly was make friends. And I did. Pretty soon I had a bunch of friends.

Kevin Goetz (11:15):

Friends who you're still friends with today?

Mike Medavoy (11:17):

Yeah. Or they're passed on. But I was with Robinson for almost two years. Carol Burnett was his big client and a wonderful person. And I made a lot of friends in the industry. I don't know what it is that made it easier for me to do that. But I made a list actually, on a yellow pad, on all the people that I wanted to meet, and I did.

Kevin Goetz (11:43):

Who was on that list?

Mike Medavoy (11:44):

Oh my God. Who wasn't on the list? I got to meet Billy Wilder. I got to meet Willie Wilder,

Kevin Goetz (11:51):

John Ford?

Mike Medavoy (11:52):

John Ford is one of the few that I didn't meet.

Kevin Goetz (11:55):

Was it mostly directors? Was it producers? Was it stars?

Mike Medavoy (11:58):

It was directors and personalities. Yeah. The first thing that you get attracted to in the business, I think, is personalities. Right? Actors. Because you see them on the screen and they're usually larger than life.

Kevin Goetz (12:11):

Who are you starstruck with?

Mike Medavoy (12:13):

Well, at the time, Paul Newman and Steve McQueen and

Kevin Goetz (12:17):

Wow. Yeah. Huge heavy hitters.

Mike Medavoy (12:19):

Redford. I mean, all of those people became friends.

Kevin Goetz (12:24):

Barbara Streisand, you have had a lifelong friendship with, right?

Mike Medavoy (12:28):

Yeah. I've been very lucky because I've made a lot of friends, and they're usually real friends as opposed to, Hey, I need something from you and you need something from me.

Kevin Goetz (12:40):

I understand that. I think you and I share this as men, which is my relationships are deeper than just the opportunistic kind of thing.

Mike Medavoy (12:50):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (12:51):

So I respect that about you. You started like Arnold Schwarzenegger's career, really, Sylvester Stallone's career. Jim Cameron's career. As an interviewer to have someone of your stature, Mike. And I know it makes you maybe a little uncomfortable with all the accolades I give, but truly it's like, where do you focus on? The number of movies, the successes you've had? Let me pick one. Tell us about Rocky, for example.

Mike Medavoy (13:19):

There's starting to be books on Rocky and Sylvester Stallone.

Kevin Goetz (13:23):

Was that a real story, by the way, about Sylvester Stallone?

Mike Medavoy (13:26):

Which one?

Kevin Goetz (13:26):

Holding out and refusing to sell the movie unless he starred in it.

Mike Medavoy (13:31):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (13:32):

So how did that go down? Can you tell us that?

Mike Medavoy (13:35):

Well, I read the script on my way to New York, and Bob and Irwin had an exclusive deal at United Artists.

Kevin Goetz (13:43):

Bob Chartoff and Irwin Winkler.

Mike Medavoy (13:46):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (13:46):

Yeah.

*Mike Medavoy (13:47):

At the time, they were shooting a movie for us, which we had high hopes for, and that Marty Scorsese directed called New York, New York. We had high hopes for that movie. We thought that was gonna be a great movie. And so it was fairly easy to cross the profits of that movie, which we thought we would do against what we thought were gonna be the losses on Rocky. And of course, it turned out to be the other way around. And that's essentially the way it went down. It's hard when you take things personal in this business because there's so many things that play a part in it. The news that I think as I look back actually, is the number of people that I started in the business. I gave 'em their first jobs. That's the part that I like. I mean, that makes me feel good. I mean, they come up to me and say, Hey, you got me started. Or you know, I met you at so and so. It's great if you can do that, because they have the same enthusiasm you had or have for what you do. Now, the business is changing decidedly right now. The movies aren't what they used to be.

Kevin Goetz (15:03):

Can you unpack that? How are they not what they used to be?

*Mike Medavoy (15:06):

I mean, you used to go to the movies, millions of people went to the movies. Now people are watching most of the stuff on television. And that's a smaller screen, obviously. But everything's changing. Our lives are changing in front of us, especially now.

Kevin Goetz (15:21):

Have movies gotten better in quality or worse, or have basically stayed the same?

Mike Medavoy (15:27):

Better, worse is usually a matter of personal feelings or personal.

Kevin Goetz (15:34):

Well, I want to get your perspective.

*Mike Medavoy (15:35):

When there's so much that's being thrown out there, the truth of the matter is that the majority of is gonna be mediocre.

Kevin Goetz (15:44):

Very true. How did you make your transition from agent to your first job at a studio? Your first job at a studio was?

Mike Medavoy (15:52):

Very lucky. I was at United Artists.

Kevin Goetz (15:55):

And you came in as a senior VP, I think, right?

Mike Medavoy (15:58):

Yeah. Senior VP in charge of production at UA here in California.

Kevin Goetz (16:03):

Who hired you for that job?

Mike Medavoy (16:04):

Eric Pleskow.

Kevin Goetz (16:06):

Who you would then go on to form Orion with as one of the partners.

Mike Medavoy (16:10):

That's right.

Kevin Goetz (16:11):

So Eric hires you and what was your first big movie?

Mike Medavoy (16:14):

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.

Kevin Goetz (16:16):

Oh, that little movie.

Mike Medavoy (16:17):

It all kind of became really kind of interesting. 'cause it went from Cuckoo's Nest to Rocky and Annie Hall came in succession.

Kevin Goetz (16:26):

Didn't you win three back to back Oscars?

Mike Medavoy (16:29):

Yeah. Those are the three.

Kevin Goetz (16:31):

I mean, who's done that? I know Saul Zaentz as a producer has won three Academy Awards as a producer.

Mike Medavoy (16:37):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (16:37):

But you as a studio executive made three cons. It had to make you the hottest talent in town, period. Full stop.

Mike Medavoy (16:46):

In the majority of the situations, you'd have to be around a long time before people will just give you the courtesy of saying, Hey, you've done it, or you can get it done. And the truth of the matter is that I think I'm at that point now when people are much nicer to me than they used to be.

*Kevin Goetz (17:06):

<laugh>. Well, you've always been a very charming and decent human being, and it shows with your philanthropic work, et cetera. You also have this uncanny ability, Mike, to marry the commercial, but yet take creative risks. You've always done that. And I've looked at it from afar and going, this is a man who could make a very commercial picture and then could also make Philadelphia. When you made Philadelphia, I was very proud of you for doing that because it was really a very brave move at the time, because no one really wanted to touch the subject of AIDS. And were able to cast two movie stars, Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington in your lead roles.

Mike Medavoy (17:47):

You know, it takes a lot of people, people to make those decisions. It's not just the Mike Medavoy story, you know? It's not just me. I mean, Denzel was not my idea. I have to admit it. It was Jonathan's idea.

Kevin Goetz (18:03):

Jonathan Demme, of course.

Mike Medavoy (18:04):

Yeah. And he and I had some really good moments on films that we did together. Silence of the Lambs is a perfect example.

Kevin Goetz (18:15):

I can't even contain myself. You throw them out like, oh yeah. And that one. It's like if you had been involved with two or three or four of these, but you were involved with scores of these important movies. Movies like Annie Hall, Black Swan, Dances with Wolves, The Fisher King, Raging Bull, Shutter Island, Legends of the Fall. Well, when we come back, I wanna start talking about some specific titles and also the formation of Orion. We'll be back in a moment. 

(PSA 18:51)

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Kevin Goetz (19:43)

We are back with the incomparable. Mike Medavoy. Mike, starting Orion was a pretty big deal. There were, I believe, four partners, right?

Mike Medavoy (19:53):

There was actually five when we started because Bob Benjamin passed away.

Kevin Goetz (19:58):

Ah. And Arthur Krim.

Mike Medavoy (20:01):

So it was Arthur Krim, Bob Benjamin, Eric Pleskow, Bill Bernstein, and myself.

Kevin Goetz (20:05):

Bill Bernstein who went to Paramount ultimately.

Mike Medavoy (20:08):

Yes, yes.

Kevin Goetz (20:08):

One of the nicest guys met.

Mike Medavoy (20:10):

Yeah. Very sweet.

Kevin Goetz (20:10):

Really good guy. And of course, Arthur Krim. I got to meet his, peripherally, his wife, Matilda, who was so instrumental in the AIDS epidemic, which probably again informed one of your reasons to even get involved in Philadelphia all those years later.

*Mike Medavoy (20:26):

When you talk about luck in life and the people that you meet. Meeting Arthur was one of the luckiest moments for me. I mean, it was Eric and Arthur, but Arthur, if you think back to Arthur buying United Artists in 1950, and then by the way, winning the Academy Award for Around World in 80 Days I think it was immediately thereafter, you think about that company, the way it started with, you know, a bunch of actors, Charlie Chaplin.

Kevin Goetz (20:57):

Mary Pickford.

Mike Medavoy (20:58):

Mary Pickford.

Kevin Goetz (20:59):

Douglas Fairbanks, I think, right?

Mike Medavoy (21:01):

Yeah. Doug Fairbanks. So how did it happen?

Kevin Goetz (21:06):

Exactly. But you made Orion happen and you were the creative force behind it. And that's when I really met you 'cause that was about 30 some odd years ago.

*Mike Medavoy (21:15):

I don't like to think of myself as being the only one that made it work. I was thinking last night, actually 'cause I went to something. All the movies that I didn't do either because Bob and Eric didn't want to do it, or the ones that I did that turned out to be really good. But the ones that I wanted to do that turned, turned out to be really great that I should have done. I mean, I developed some movies that I should have made, that I didn't make.

Kevin Goetz (21:50):

Can you think of one?

Mike Medavoy (21:51):

One is Pulp Fiction,

Kevin Goetz (21:54):

You thought it was too violent, didn't you?

Mike Medavoy (21:55):

Well, I had just come back from Washington where I was told that I was doing too many violent movies.

Kevin Goetz (22:01):

Who told you that?

Mike Medavoy (22:02):

I can't tell you. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (22:05):

What year was it? <laugh>?

Mike Medavoy (22:06):

Well, it was in the Clinton years.

Kevin Goetz (22:10):

Well, it wouldn't have been Bill. You and Bill have a very good relationship. Bill wouldn't have said that.

Mike Medavoy (22:14):

Well, he didn't say that to me. <laugh>. That's why I mentioned his name 'cause otherwise it would've been him. But there was a period of people feeling as though we were going all out. There were a lot of movies. You know the movie that Jane Fonda did with her dad, I should have done that one.

Kevin Goetz (22:32):

On Golden Pond?

Mike Medavoy (22:33):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (22:34):

Why didn't you? It's one of my favorite movies of all time.

Mike Medavoy (22:36):

I know. I mean, it

Kevin Goetz (22:38):

Was Mark Rydell attached then?

Mike Medavoy (22:40):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (22:40):

Why didn't you do that one?

Mike Medavoy (22:42):

That was probably why he didn't do it, because I didn't think Mark was that talented. But I was wrong. I've been wrong a number of times.

Kevin Goetz (22:53):

Network was a movie that you almost didn't get made. Correct.

Mike Medavoy (22:56):

Network was funny.

Kevin Goetz (22:58):

You passed on it initially, didn't you?

Mike Medavoy (23:00):

We passed on it then we split it with MGM.

Kevin Goetz (23:04):

What made you get back involved with it?

*Mike Medavoy (23:06):

I remember sitting down with the writer-director, Paddy Chayefsky, when he told me that he wanted Sidney Lumet to direct it. And I said, Sidney Lumet, he doesn't have a funny bone in his body. What's the last Sidney Lumet comedy you've seen? He said, well, I think he can be funny. I've talked to him. And I said, my last memory of Sidney Lumet's movies is Pawnbroker, where he takes a nail and sticks it in his hand. <laugh>. I said, I mean, if you think that's funny, then you and I disagree. But everybody wanted to do it and we did it. And I'm obviously very proud of having been a part of it.

Kevin Goetz (23:53):

It's so funny you all saw it as a comedy. Well he did in a parody, right?

Mike Medavoy (23:57):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (23:59):

But man, it holds up. It more than holds up. It was prescient. It foreshadowed our world today.

Mike Medavoy (24:07):

Yeah, I know.

Kevin Goetz (24:08):

Damn.

Mike Medavoy (24:08):

Talk about what's going on. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (24:10):

Art imitating life. I wanna play a speed round with you for a second. It's a little fun thing. I usually do it with people, but I'm gonna do it with movies. I just want you to give me kind of your first thoughts of some of these. We'll start with Platoon.

*Mike Medavoy (24:26):

Platoon was a film that was picked up. It was done before we got our hands on it. I think our foreign guy saw it first and then showed it to us. And when I went to see the film, it was at the Culver City Lot. I was just blown away by it. I had done a film with Oliver, which was, I would say somewhere between mediocre and good. But I've been in the army, but I was not sent to Vietnam. I was sent to Korea.

Kevin Goetz (24:59):

Let me give you another, Terminator.

Mike Medavoy (25:02):

Terminator had its own story and the stories just keep changing depending on who you ask. I think his wife probably has the best version of the story.

Kevin Goetz (25:13):

Gail Ann Hurd.

*Mike Medavoy (25:15):

Yeah. She basically tells it the way it is. We were on the phone and we were talking about casting and we were throwing names out and I threw a name out that they both thought I was crazy and they were right. It was OJ Simpson and I threw the name out and they both shot me down immediately. At which point it was pretty clear that they were right. And I suggested Schwarzenegger and they said, well that's a better idea. And then I set up a meeting with Arnold and them. Arnold lives about four houses down from me and it worked. Arnold is very special. He’s very, very smart. I mean, the fact that he became governor of California and that he has that accent is great. Look at me. I'm born in China and don't have an accent. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (26:08):

Oh. And started with Russia no less.

Mike Medavoy (26:11):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (26:11):

So are you still friends with Arnold?

Mike Medavoy (26:13):

Very much so. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (26:15):

He's wonderful. You know his son Patrick is on this show, White Lotus.

Mike Medavoy (26:19):

Yeah. And I hear he is great in it. I haven’t seen it yet.

Kevin Goetz (26:21):

He's so good at it. Next movie, Amadeus.

*Mike Medavoy (26:25):

Yeah, that's Milos Forman. If I said, Hey, what did the best movies that you can remember being a part of? I would say that one.

Kevin Goetz (26:35):

Tell us why.

Mike Medavoy (26:37):

It's just, it's off kilter. It's not what you think it's gonna be. Be, I mean, the guy who plays Amadeus, who I knew from another movie that we had done.

Kevin Goetz (26:48):

Tom Hulce.

Mike Medavoy (26:50):

Yeah, Tom Hulce. That's a genius that really comes up with that idea.

Kevin Goetz (26:54):

How about F. Murray Abraham as Salieri, I mean, come on Mike.

Mike Medavoy (26:59):

Well, F. Murray Abraham, I knew he'd done some plays in LA at the theater.

Kevin Goetz (27:04):

Consummate actor.

Mike Medavoy (27:06):

Yeah. But everybody said they were doing the movie is that he acted not like F. Murray Abraham, but he acted like Salieri at all times.

Kevin Goetz (27:15):

Well, a lot of the great actors have.

Mike Medavoy (27:17):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (27:17):

Or do. One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.

*Mike Medavoy (27:20):

That's also a long story because I was running the motion picture department at IFA, which was an agency. It was like the second largest agency after the Morris office at the time. CAA didn't exist. And I went to see Kirk not wanting to see Kirk 'cause I didn't wanna represent Kirk, which was pretty stupid of me, but he called me to tell me that he wasn't gonna go with me, but that I could represent this play that he had done off-Broadway. And I thought, well thanks a lot. I'm never gonna be able to make that work. It turned out, if I looked at the 326 movies that are a part of the panoply of films that's probably up there as one of the best, if not the best movie.

Kevin Goetz (28:13):

I got to be rather good friends with Louise Fletcher.

Mike Medavoy (28:17):

Yeah. Who's great.

Kevin Goetz (28:18):

How did you cast her?

Mike Medavoy (28:20):

Well, Milos cast her.

Kevin Goetz (28:22):

She was doing television, right?

Mike Medavoy (28:24):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (28:24):

She was married to Jerry.

Mike Medavoy (28:25):

Yeah, Jerry Bick. How's that for one that I pulled out of whatever ear.

Kevin Goetz (28:31):

Did I prompt you by saying Jerry first?

Mike Medavoy (28:34):

Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin Goetz (28:36):

You moved to TriStar, to run TriStar.

Mike Medavoy (28:39):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (28:39):

I think I worked on every one of your pictures there. Sleepless in Seattle.

Mike Medavoy (28:44):

Yeah. I was being prepped as I was coming in.

Kevin Goetz (28:48):

It's one of your biggest grossing movies, isn't it?

Mike Medavoy (28:50):

Well, I don't know. As you get older and the time goes by, obviously movies will have a higher budget and a higher return.

Kevin Goetz (29:01):

That's fair.

*Mike Medavoy (29:02):

It was a really good movie and I don't think Tom Hanks was expected to do that. The director Nora, everybody loved Nora. But she had done a movie at Fox that did not work and I asked her to come in and rewrite it and then I figured if I saw what she'd written, that it would tell me whether she could direct it or not. And she did a great job on the script and therefore the movie.

Kevin Goetz (29:27):

How about Apocalypse Now, by the way, Apocalypse Now is the first movie NRG tested.

Mike Medavoy (29:32):

Oh really? <laugh>. Well that also has a long story. Like a lot of these long stories.

Kevin Goetz (29:38):

What's your strongest memory about Apocalypse Now?

Mike Medavoy (29:41):

Well, there are a couple of really strong moments. One was I got there the day that Martin Sheen got a heart attack.

Kevin Goetz (29:51):

Wow.

Mike Medavoy (29:52):

John Milius was also a client of mine and one of my first clients, if you think about it, it was Milius and Spielberg.

Kevin Goetz (30:00):

Coppola.

Mike Medavoy (30:02):

Coppola actually wrote a script on Patton.

Kevin Goetz (30:07):

Oh.

Mike Medavoy (30:07):

That's when I first knew about him. He was great. I still write back and forth to him now and he is working away.

Kevin Goetz (30:17):

How was the movie that, when he brought Apocalypse Now, did he bring it to you? Did you seek it out?

Mike Medavoy (30:22):

No, I went to see him with Arthur and Eric in San Francisco and everybody had read the script and we all liked it and we wanted to do it. Just as that was going on, we were having our problems with Jack Beckett in Transamerica. Nevertheless, he had already sold part of the foreign, so there was less to chase in terms of numbers. And of course that movie went way over budget. But you know, it can happen.

Kevin Goetz (30:52):

It's a seminal picture.

Mike Medavoy (30:54):

Yeah. Amazing. When you look at the war movies that I was involved with, Platoon came via somebody else. We put it on the screen, did very well. Thin Red line.

Kevin Goetz (31:08):

Thin Red Line. Wow. Yeah.

Mike Medavoy (31:10):

Apocalypse. I mean there are…

Kevin Goetz (31:12):

I wanted to ask you about Marlon Brando because Marlon Brando and you had a very, very close relationship. He was not particularly very public as a figure in this second part of his life. But he trusted you in a way that you became one of the executors of his estate. Tell me about him.

Mike Medavoy (31:36):

I think I was very surprised when he asked me to become his executor.

Kevin Goetz (31:40):

Really?

*Mike Medavoy (31:41):

Yeah. It was in the middle of a conversation that had something to do with something completely different. But I guess he trusted that I would take care of his kids. Now he had two kids that died early and it's kind of strange. Right. MikeMedavoy is Marlon Brando's executor.

Kevin Goetz (32:01):

Not when you think about all your relationships, it isn't.

Mike Medavoy (32:04):

Yeah, maybe.

Kevin Goetz (32:06):

But you've done very good by him in terms of the integrity that you've shown. I didn't get to go to his island when I went to Tahiti, but they're now developing it.

Mike Medavoy (32:16):

Well it’s developed and it's great. You know, it's maybe one of the most beautiful spots in the world. I mean, an ex president's been there, a number of other people, it has a great following. It's a great place to be if you, really need to get away and it's a fantasy island.

Kevin Goetz (32:46):

Ha. Among many things you've done in your life. You've also written a couple of books.

Mike Medavoy (32:52):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:52):

One subject particularly interests me and that is the subject of American film as our principle cultural export.

Mike Medavoy (33:02):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (33:03):

Can you tell us about that and why that resonates for you so much?

Mike Medavoy (33:07):

Well, think about it here. You are born in China, raised in Chile. And I've noticed when I go around the world, if I for example, go to a country, the importance of American films now, the question of course now becomes, is that gonna continue?

Kevin Goetz (33:25):

What do you think about that? Do you think it will?

*Mike Medavoy (33:27):

It's an interesting question because this last Chinese picture did $2 billion in China. Now is it gonna have an impact? I don't know. I'm getting to that age when I'm starting to notice, you know, all the changes that are taking place as a result of my age and the friends that I've got that are getting older. And the fact is that not long ago I was told that I had myeloma and that I had to get that cured. And I've been working on that.

Kevin Goetz (34:02):

How's that going?

*Mike Medavoy (34:04):

It seems to be going well. We're not here forever. I'm gonna do the best I can and then I'll be in six feet under and hopefully I'll have made a difference. And that's it.

Kevin Goetz (34:17):

I think we can remove the word hopefully. Mike, you've made a difference.

Mike Medavoy (34:21):

What was in the top of the camp as I was going as a kid, the thing that Donald Decker, the head of the camp used to say, think of the other person first. Don't just think of yourself. And it made a difference.

Kevin Goetz (34:39):

What's important to you right now?

*Mike Medavoy (34:42):

What's most important is I continue to work, continue with my family. I'd like to see my kids really have a good life and enjoy themselves. They don't have to do what I did. They don't have to be who I am.

Kevin Goetz (35:00):

Were you a good dad?

Mike Medavoy (35:01):

I think you gotta ask them that question.

Kevin Goetz (35:03):

It's a good answer.

Mike Medavoy (35:04):

They'll say yes, but I don't know if they're just <laugh>. When I think about it, I think about what are the mistakes you made? And there are plenty.

Kevin Goetz (35:15):

What's the biggest mistake you think you've made in your life? It doesn't have to be professionally, it could be personal. And what did you learn from it?

*Mike Medavoy (35:23):

There's a myriad of mistakes. I think it's not something that one of these people is gonna want to hear. I'm pretty good actually at figuring out who's real and who's not. That's pretty hard 'cause you need time to do that.

Kevin Goetz (35:39):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Mike Medavoy (35:40):

But I'm proud of myself is that I can make a mistake and walk away.

Kevin Goetz (35:44):

Right. Do you have any regrets, Mike?

Mike Medavoy (35:47):

Yeah, I do.

Kevin Goetz (35:48):

Any you can share?

Mike Medavoy (35:50):

No.

Kevin Goetz (35:51):

I just feel like there's so much you can give us <laugh> as advice. You're like the sage leader. I'm hanging on every word that you're saying

Mike Medavoy (36:00):

Now we're gonna give you the long list of regrets. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (36:04):

You know, it's funny, Mike. I look at my own life and I don't really have any regrets. Not really. I think I was an honest broker, an honest guy, trying to do the best I could every day. I might fail half the time <laugh>, you know what I mean? But I don't look back and sort of regret anything. Everything led to the next thing, which is sort of the perfect path. I always say.

*Mike Medavoy (36:28):

Yeah, did you learn something is the big question? And the answer is yes, I have learned things, you know, where I've made a mistake or made a bunch of mistakes.

Kevin Goetz (36:39):

What are you most proud of personally?

Mike Medavoy (36:42):

Well, I'm proud that I continue to work trying to do the right thing.

Kevin Goetz (36:46):

Mm-hmm

Mike Medavoy (36:48):

<affirmative>. That's probably the proudest. And I've been watching my kids and my wife.

Kevin Goetz (36:51):

Yeah. Every time we've talked about particularly your younger son who's six six or something.

Mike Medavoy (36:56):

He's six eight.

Kevin Goetz (36:57):

Is he still playing basketball?

Mike Medavoy (36:59):

No, he's working.

Kevin Goetz (37:01):

What's he do?

Mike Medavoy (37:02):

He's working, making films up in Canada.

Kevin Goetz (37:07):

Oh, marvelous. And I know your other son, Brian, is he still a manager?

Mike Medavoy (37:11):

Yeah, he is.

Kevin Goetz (37:12):

He's a terrific human. Mike, I'm trying to wrap this up because I know you have a hard out, but there's about a million other questions I wanna ask you. I don't ever ask this 'cause it's a generic question or it could come off as a generic question, but there is an entire new generation of emerging filmmakers. I know you are a founding member of Sundance. Why was that important to you to create? Bob was really the creator of it, Robert Redford, but you were a founder. Why was that important to you?

*Mike Medavoy (37:40):

The way he explained it made a lot of sense. I mean, he used to have meetings up there with writers and directors and they would inform each other of things that they were doing. It was quite different. I think Sydney Pollack was part of that group, but I was one of the founders of FilmX, which became the American Cinematheque.

Kevin Goetz (38:03):

Of which you were on the board. And I just joined the board about two months ago.

Mike Medavoy (38:08):

Yeah, it's good. It's amazing what's happened there, right? And there is an example of doing something good. Netflix made American Cinematheque into a real working group and I think the guys that are a part of it are really doing a great job,

Kevin Goetz (38:26):

A great job. I just had lunch with Sandy Climan, of course, Rick Nicita, who's been a guest on the podcast, and a special call out to Ken Scherer who runs our organization. So the question I was gonna ask you before we got derailed a little on Sundance is what do you say to the next generation of filmmaker, she or he coming up in the world, what would be the strongest and most important lesson that you could offer?

*Mike Medavoy (38:56):

You should take a look at The Story of Film. Watch it. It's on Amazon.

Kevin Goetz (39:01):

The Story of Film.

Mike Medavoy (39:03):

Yeah. I had nothing to do with it. I just saw it and I wish I'd seen it before I started in the business.

*Kevin Goetz (39:10):

Alright, look at The Story of Film and you'll walk away with a lot of gems. Mike, I can only say that on behalf of our listeners, on behalf of so many people who've worked with you, we're grateful to you, man. We're grateful for your contributions to the movie business, but I'm grateful to you also as a friend and someone that I've gotten to know over the last decade or so, and you're one of my heroes in this business.

Mike Medavoy (39:35):

Thank you. Well, it's mutual. I'm glad that I'm doing this. Hopefully, people learn a little bit more about all of us and the business and appreciate it and you and I will continue to have our friendship.

Kevin Goetz (39:52):

Thanks, Mike.

Mike Medavoy (39:53):

Take care.

Kevin Goetz (39:54):

Bye everybody. To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed our interview today. I encourage you to watch many of the films discussed. For more filmmaking and audience testing stories, I invite you to check out my book Audienceology at Amazon or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com. You can also follow me on my social media. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I'll welcome iconic screenwriter and director Shane Black. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie-making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Mike Medavoy
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)