Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest: Nia Vardalos

Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:03):

From script to screen, every film is brought to life by visionary creatives and executives all sharing one mission – to captivate the audience. Hosted by award-winning movie strategist Kevin Goetz, our podcast Don't Kill The Messenger, offers a filmmaking masterclass through intimate conversations with Hollywood's most influential voices. And now your host, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:29):

Some stories don't begin with a studio deal. They start with one person determined to tell their truth before the world knew her name. My guest today was a writer performing her own story on a tiny stage. That story would go on to become one of the highest grossing independent films ever made. And she remains the only woman to have single handedly written an original film franchise. That person is Nia Vardalos. And of course I'm talking about My big Fat Greek Wedding <laugh>. Since that breakout success, she's built a remarkable career as a writer, actor, director, and producer. Always bringing honesty, humor, and heart to everything she creates. Nia, welcome to my show. 

Nia Vardalos (01:22):

I feel like my mom wrote that intro <laugh> and called in and went. Kevin, you better be nice to her. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (01:29):

Okay, I have to start with one thing. I have to start with can I see your wallet?

Nia Vardalos (01:36):

I'm sure it's in there. Let's see. Let's see.

Kevin Goetz (01:39):

Okay. She was not expecting this listeners, she's like, what can I look at her wallet? So, okay, so I'm gonna let you, oh my God.

Nia Vardalos (01:46):

Okay, let me see.

Kevin Goetz (01:48):

Oh my God, please.

Nia Vardalos (01:49):

I carry it with me forever and ever. My God. And ever

Kevin Goetz (01:52):

Done

Nia Vardalos (01:52):

It Might have crumbs on it.

Kevin Goetz (01:54):

Oh

Nia Vardalos (01:54):

Yes sir. My

Kevin Goetz (01:55):

God. Okay. Alright.

Nia Vardalos (01:57):

It’s ancient.

Kevin Goetz (01:58):

I am looking folks. Oh my God. What we call the top line sheet. When I was at National Research Group, let's see if there's a date here. Yes, it is January 5th, 2001.

Nia Vardalos (02:13):

Wow.

Kevin Goetz (02:14):

That was my last year at NRG before I went to OTX. And this was a screening done of my big fat Greek wedding at AMC Woodland Hills with a 60% excellent for older women. Over 35 a 69 Excellent. A 94 in the top two boxes and an 87 definite recommend. Why do you still carry this in your wallet?

*Nia Vardalos (02:40):

Well, that night I didn't even know what these numbers meant, but I could see from everyone's faces and expressions that something magical had happened and Gary Goetzman gave me one of these and I tucked it into my wallet thinking I might not ever see one of these again. And someday someone will tell me what it all means.

Kevin Goetz (03:01):

Well I can do that after this podcast.

Nia Vardalos (03:03):

Yeah. Well since then I've had so many test screens.

Kevin Goetz (03:05):

I was just gonna say, you now know what it means.

Nia Vardalos (03:07):

It now means it's like being at your own funeral 'cause you get to be at the back of the room. And I was at Valentine's Day. I remember someone in the audience said, I don't like it that she looks old now. And I was like, wow. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (03:19):

Oh yeah.

Nia Vardalos (03:19):

It's amazing What they say.

Kevin Goetz (03:20):

I don't love talent coming to a screening. Even if you've produced the movie,

Nia Vardalos (03:25):

It's important.

Kevin Goetz (03:25):

'cause every actress and I've worked with the biggest stars

Nia Vardalos (03:29):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (03:29):

Who have produced their pictures, invariably will say they thought my ass was too big.

Nia Vardalos (03:34):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (03:34):

That pimple, they noticed that. So there is the actor and you know, that's my background. So it is like, I get it.

Nia Vardalos (03:40):

Yeah. It's like being girl

Kevin Goetz (03:41):

 I get it.

Nia Vardalos (03:41):

They're so mean to women. Or they'll say, I don't,

Kevin Goetz (03:44):

It's not just to women.

Nia Vardalos (03:45):

Yeah. I don't like it that she slept with him on the third date. That's kind of slutty. And meanwhile the guy can play a character where the wife dies in three scenes later. Oh yeah. Sleeping with the secretary and they're fine with it. 

Kevin Goetz (03:57):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nia Vardalos (03:57):

So for me it's like a psychological anthropological experiment to hear what people actually think about ourselves. It's terrible. People are

Kevin Goetz (04:06):

And they don't know what you're there.

Nia Vardalos (04:07):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (04:07):

You know, I always think of like what would be the superpower I would want if I could have any. And for me it would be the ability to be invisible and observe people. But I have to rethink that because if I actually heard what people say, like there's times when you're just like plain tired. Right. And somebody you love might call and you go, I just can't do it right now.

Nia Vardalos (04:30):

<laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (04:30):

And you don't mean you can't talk to them because they're them. It's because you need to have some self care. But like to hear someone say that is crushing.

Nia Vardalos (04:40):

Well here's the thing. Somebody once said to me, and she didn't mean it to be mean, but she said, you will never have the burden of getting a part for your looks. It really affected me. Wow. At the time I thought, she's right. She's aging out of her category. And so for me, I always felt like I could write my way out of whatever hole I was at 'cause I learned to write at Second City. Yeah. Always. So

Kevin Goetz (05:05):

You learned to write at Second City?

Nia Vardalos (05:07):

Yeah. We learned to write sketches.

Kevin Goetz (05:09):

With our now mutual friend.

Nia Vardalos (05:10):

Which one?

Kevin Goetz (05:11):

Mark DeCarlo.

Nia Vardalos (05:11):

Mark DeCarlo. There's something about Chicago Improvisers. Speaking of Mark DeCarlo. We work hard. I met Rachel Dratch in that time. We just don't take no for an answer. So why

Kevin Goetz (05:22):

Debbie Downer?

Nia Vardalos (05:22):

Yeah. Debbie Downer. So why I carry this in my wallet constantly and have had it with me for 20 years.

Kevin Goetz (05:29):

24.

Nia Vardalos (05:31):

Exactly

Kevin Goetz (05:31):

And a half. It looked like years.

Nia Vardalos (05:33):

It was like parchment paper when you opened it.

Kevin Goetz (05:35):

<laugh>. Well, I was just thinking to myself, that could be like when you have your archives seriously. Mm-hmm. Go to some school.

Nia Vardalos (05:43):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (05:44):

That will be part of it, I hope.

Nia Vardalos (05:46):

I hope so. It's a really strange thing. 'cause it was given to me. I knew it was magic at the time. I didn't know until the movie came out and it started to just And go and go and go. And then I kept looking at that paper and thinking they must have known. But we never know. Do we?

Kevin Goetz (06:06):

No.

Nia Vardalos (06:06):

The top two boxes can be 94 and no one can go to the movie.

Kevin Goetz (06:11):

Well I'm gonna tell you the story from my perspective. Prior to you knowing those scores.

Nia Vardalos (06:15):

Uhhuh <affirmative>,

Kevin Goetz (06:15):

We did a screening.

Nia Vardalos (06:16):

Oh, okay.

Kevin Goetz (06:16):

On the lot. I think it was with Paul Brooks.

Nia Vardalos (06:20):

Mm-hmm

Kevin Goetz (06:20):

<affirmative>. And at the end of the screening it was only a hundred people or so. We were walking around and I'm looking at the questionnaires over people's shoulders and it was scoring like excellent, excellent, excellent. Very good. Excellent. I said, Paul, these are great scores. I said, too bad there's no movie star in it. Meaning this not gonna have a shot in hell.

Nia Vardalos (06:39):

Yeah.

*Kevin Goetz (06:40):

You were involved in something that has become known as a joke in my company because nobody is allowed to ever mention My Big Fat Greek Wedding <laugh>. There's about five or six movies that nobody can mention and the reason they can't mention them is because they were outliers. They had no business to do what they did. But for the fact that it was so damn good, it was like an explosion of authenticity on the screen.

Nia Vardalos (07:07):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (07:08):

You also received that beautiful film and gave it to us at a time. I would imagine in your life where you are a fully formed adult, you were not a kid. So you have remained so available and so beautiful and kind as a human.

Nia Vardalos (07:28):

Thank you.

Kevin Goetz (07:30):

And you could have gone another way with this tremendous success of that.

Nia Vardalos (07:34):

Yeah, I sure developed a love of Prada purses. Let's be honest. It was pretty great. Everything that happened was great. Everything that came my way, but there's no way I could let it change me. One, I'm a Canadian middle child, so I'm a people pleaser, number one.

Kevin Goetz (07:51):

Ooh.

*Nia Vardalos (07:51):

And also, in order to write life, I have to live life.

Kevin Goetz (07:55):

Where in Canada?

Nia Vardalos (07:56):

Winnipeg. Right from the middle.

Kevin Goetz (07:58):

Winnipeg. I know. So you know cold.

Nia Vardalos (07:59):

I really do.

Kevin Goetz (08:01):

Okay. So you were born in Winnipeg?

Nia Vardalos (08:02):

I was born in Winnipeg. I went to Toronto to theater school and then

Kevin Goetz (08:07):

Where

*Nia Vardalos (08:07):

It was called Ryerson, now it's called Toronto Metropolitan University. Okay. And when I was there, I was being trained to be a Shakespearean actress and possibly to do musicals as well. And one night I went with a group of friends to Second City and I saw it and thought that's what I wanna do.

Kevin Goetz (08:27):

You mean you took like a side trip to Chicago?

Nia Vardalos (08:29):

No, Toronto Second City.

Kevin Goetz (08:31):

Yeah. Isn't mean that's where it originated.

Nia Vardalos (08:33):

No, sorry. We always say it's the original me. It was What's in Chicago though? It was Chicago and Toronto was Gilda Radner.

Kevin Goetz (08:38):

Yeah. They're

Nia Vardalos (08:39):

All the best. And Joe Flaherty

Kevin Goetz (08:40):

Of all Canadians.

Nia Vardalos (08:40):

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? So I went to the old fire hall, the improv set was free. You know, when you're a student you look for free stuff and what the improv set is, they've done the two acts and then they take a break and somebody comes out and they say, give me a room size, location and a household object. Right. And they'll say,

Kevin Goetz (08:59):

You throw out a word or something.

Nia Vardalos (09:01):

Yeah, exactly. They'll just say like

Kevin Goetz (09:02):

A style of a theater.

Nia Vardalos (09:04):

Exactly.

Kevin Goetz (09:05):

You say Shakespeare or Noel Coward.

Nia Vardalos (09:07):

That's exactly right.

Kevin Goetz (09:08):

And you have to incorporate that. Yes. On your

Nia Vardalos (09:10):

Feet. We were so verbally fled. So I saw it and I thought that's what I wanna do. And someone said, you know, if you work there you can take the classes for free. So I took a job in the box office and I was the worst box office person ever. 'cause I would just take the phone off the hook because they were sold out for three months. And I would go and watch the show <laugh>, I love the show, the first two acts. And then I'd go and watch the improv set. And so on March 29th, I'll never forget this day 'cause I was in the box office and the stage manager came running in and was going through the Rolodex. <laugh> looking for the nineties, you know, looking for

Kevin Goetz (09:44):

Placed right next to the fax machine.

Nia Vardalos (09:46):

Exactly, exactly. The cat sound and Exactly. And so Tamar is her name. Because you know, I was working in the box office, I knew everybody knew the whole staff. And she said this actress was rushed to the hospital with an inner earimbalance and she needed to call the understudy. And I think I'm a witch 'cause I was watching the phone willing no one to answer. Don't answer the phone. Don't answer the phone. No one answered the phone. Tamar went backstage and I followed her and I said, I am a member of Actors Equity <laugh>. Which is so crazy that I had to make it legal. And I know your show. And one of the actors came in. That's Lucy. It's that's an episode of Lucy. Isn't it? Nuts? One of the actors came in.

Kevin Goetz (10:27):

I like New York and June now about you went, went the Van Johnson thing. Yeah,

Nia Vardalos (10:31):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (10:31):

I've seen it so many times. I know they, oh my God.

Nia Vardalos (10:34):

Yeah,

Kevin Goetz (10:34):

God love you. That's how got him. God love you. And they said yes.

Nia Vardalos (10:38):

Well, they had no choice. No rehearsal. No, no rehearsal. Well the first guy came in and he was in the opening two hander and he said, do you know it was called Nun. He said, do you know Nun? And I went, mm-hmm

Kevin Goetz (10:47):

<affirmative>

*Nia Vardalos (10:48):

N-U-N. Like a nun. Like with a habit. And it's about a nun on her first date. I'll never forget it. And it was a scene written by them three months earlier in the improv set. And I said, yes, mark, I do. And he was like, what's your name? And I was like, Nia. And so he started to do the lines of Nun and I did them back and he looked at Tamar and he said put her on. And then Tamar had to call Chicago Second City to get permission because Toronto Second City producer was having a baby. I got so lucky. So Chicago was like, let us know how the Girl with the Balls does. And I did the show and then the cast was amazing. Afterwards they were buying me drinks and I was like, yeah, we, yeah, I know. Yeah. That was fun. No, we want you to join <laugh>. Yeah. The next day I reported from my box office shift and the producers were there and they hired me for the cast.

Kevin Goetz (11:36):

I'm gonna get long gonna get veklempt. I love it. It was no accident. It was no luck. It was divine intervention of some sort.

Nia Vardalos (11:44):

It's do the work,

Kevin Goetz (11:45):

Do the work. Be prepared.

Nia Vardalos (11:46):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (11:47):

And when that opportunity comes, be fucking ready,

Nia Vardalos (11:49):

<laugh> be ready

Kevin Goetz (11:50):

And grab it.

Nia Vardalos (11:51):

Grab

Kevin Goetz (11:51):

It.

Nia Vardalos (11:51):

Yeah. Grabbed it. I went home and sat on my couch and cried. Like, I was like, what just happened?

Kevin Goetz (11:57):

How did you get your equity card?

Nia Vardalos (11:58):

Musical theater.

Kevin Goetz (11:59):

Doing what?

Nia Vardalos (12:00):

Doing Kismet and doing anything goes. I played Reno Sweeney. Oh, Muskoka Festival.

Kevin Goetz (12:06):

Got it.

Nia Vardalos (12:06):

You do six shows in Rep. Really? Canadian. An

Kevin Goetz (12:08):

Actors Equity, Uhhuh <affirmative>. Because I was in American Actors' Equity.

Nia Vardalos (12:12):

Ah, yeah.

Kevin Goetz (12:13):

And that was such a special time to get an equity card you feel like is something about really feeling like an actor.

Nia Vardalos (12:19):

He really feel like

Kevin Goetz (12:19):

swag was cool, but actors' equity man.

Nia Vardalos (12:22):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (12:22):

Right.

Nia Vardalos (12:23):

You're like, I'm a thespian. I need some leg warmers

Kevin Goetz (12:26):

Now tell me about growing up, siblings?

Nia Vardalos (12:29):

Yeah, as I said, I have an older sister. Me, my younger sister, Maryanne, my brother Nick.

Kevin Goetz (12:35):

So Greek on both sides.

Nia Vardalos (12:37):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (12:38):

So everything we saw in

Nia Vardalos (12:41):

The documentary,

Kevin Goetz (12:42):

I don't know about the documentary.

Nia Vardalos (12:43):

My big Fat Greek wedding I always say is a documentary about my documentary.

Kevin Goetz (12:47):

Sorry, I'm not that swift sometimes. So yeah, in your documentary that just felt like falling off a stoop I guess.

*Nia Vardalos (12:56):

Yeah. I wrote the screenplay, I gave it to my managers because I had auditioned for a couple of shows and gotten very close but not gotten them. And so I thought, okay, maybe I need to write my own thing like I'd done at Second City. So I took every story I'd been telling at parties for years. Like my aunt who had a lump on the back of her neck that she claimed was her twin. That's true. All these little stories that were true.

Kevin Goetz (13:19):

Had you ever written anything?

Nia Vardalos (13:21):

Just the sketches at Second City. That's what I mean.

Kevin Goetz (13:23):

Yeah. So you wrote 10 minutes sketches or something.

Nia Vardalos (13:25):

That's right. But every sketch has a beginning, middle, and end. And quite often you lay out, you, you drop little seeds within the sketch so that the ending makes sense. And that's the same

Kevin Goetz (13:38):

Because you know you need the payoff

Nia Vardalos (13:39):

That's right.

Kevin Goetz (13:40):

Of the setup. Yeah. So funny in movies, how often do I say to filmmakers, you don't have an ending problem, you have an Act one problem.

Nia Vardalos (13:47):

Yes. Do you know why

Kevin Goetz (13:49):

You didn't set it up correctly? Yeah. And so therefore it doesn't, yeah, I'm sure you're familiar with this, right? Yeah. This is a very prevalent problem.

Nia Vardalos (13:54):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (13:55):

So they put a bandaid on the end. Mm-hmm. But it's not earned.

Nia Vardalos (13:58):

It's not earned. And that's why there's no emotional payoff. And when they check the top two boxes, I now know it's because they feel invested and they feel heard and they feel that you told them a story.

Kevin Goetz (14:09):

Well, I'm gonna disabuse you of a little thing. I don't say they invest in the top two boxes. What you're really investing in is the excellent, the excellent is of a certain level. And you're excellent was so disproportionately high, if I can see that again. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I wanna explain, uh, 'cause I think the listeners will be interested to hear this. So this was what was so great about Nia’s movie. So if you look at this top line sheet, you're seeing that you are 92% in the top two boxes. 60 excellent. And 32 very good. Because of that, the definite recommend was a 78 because it's almost always all of your excellence and half of your very goods that give you your all important money number, which is your definite recommend. Definite recommend is mainly the correlation between a number

Nia Vardalos (14:58):

Uhhuh

*Kevin Goetz (14:59):

And the legs of a movie. And this is very important to this conversation because what we're gonna talk about in a moment is gonna be the legs of my big Fat Greek wedding. It was a word of mouth monster hit. So in other words, 60, excellent, half of 32 is 16 is 76, you're at a 78. Now let's do something else. Let's say you have a 92 top box, but your excellent is A 32 and you're very good is a 60. All of your excellence, 32, half of your very goods of that 60 would be a 30

(15:35):

That would be a 62 definite recommend you had a 78. The difference between a 78 and a 62 could mean, and in this case did mean tens of millions of dollars. How interesting. So it's not the top two that I ever like to talk about. It's the excellent and the definite recommend. And that to me is what was so spectacular about your journey. Again, going back to my own experience with my big fat Greek wedding. So it opens and it does nicely in its platform. It opened slowly and they kept expanding. And I remember calling Paul Brooks or something and saying, wow, 'cause I'm friends with Bob and Jeanne Berney. And I said, okay, so it's probably gonna get to 20. Geez. Yeah, we think more. And then when it got to 40 <laugh>, it may get to 60, it may to 80. What was the final number?

Nia Vardalos (16:26):

You're gonna think I'm really an idealistic nice girl from the prairies, but I don't know.

Kevin Goetz (16:33):

$241.4 million domestically and worldwide $368.7 million. I literally cannot think of another example. So for 10 years following that movie, and you know I've worked on over 5,000 titles, so I cannot tell you how many folks would say, but my big Fat Greek wedding, I said, yes, but here's why. Some of it I could explain and some of it I couldn't. And that's why I was so interested in having you as a guest, Nia, because it was such a great outlier, as I said, in the best sense of it. And it it launched your career. Sharon Stone is a dear friend of mine. She was a guest here. And she said, well, because we are so close, I knew this story that when she went to the Palais for Basic Instinct, she walked in as an unknown. Now she had done, I don't know, 18 movies before, including total recall. So she wasn't like an unknown, but she was certainly not a star. But she walked out a star. And that's essentially your story. Who's Nia? Who's Nia? Who's Nia? That movie opens, does what it is, and you're the hottest <laugh> actress in Hollywood. What was that like?

*Nia Vardalos (17:54):

It was a heady experience for sure. It's something that was beyond my goal because I wanted to be a working actor. And when it happened, it showed me that it's okay to think and to dream of the impossible. I wasn't a person who ever dreamt of any part of what came my way. I just wanted to be the fifth person on a sitcom. And then I realized I had something to say. I realized that I had written this incredible feminist story without offending men, which is my mandate. I believe that if you wanna say something, you have to say, everyone come with me and I will tell you a story. But you can't exclude an entire slice of the population and jump up on a soapbox and say, listen to me. Listen to me. No one's gonna listen. So every time since then that I've ever written something, I weave in a tiny microcosm of what I believe and what I want. I used all that white hot power to make Connie and Carla, the music budget alone was the entire budget of my first movie, <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (19:02):

What was the budget of the first movie?

Nia Vardalos (19:03):

5 million.

Kevin Goetz (19:04):

How did you find the money?

Nia Vardalos (19:05):

The money came our way in various forms. The first were a couple of offers where someone came into Playtone and said, I wanna finance this movie. And then

Kevin Goetz (19:13):

How did Playtone get aware of your property?

*Nia Vardalos (19:15):

Okay, so I wrote the screenplay, couldn't get it read. And then I am friends with Jeff Garland. And also I had seen Julia Sweeney do storytelling, not standups. I'm not a standup, so I thought that's what I'll do. So I jumped on stage, I rented a theater. Our stage manager from Second City Chicago, Jimmy Otto had also moved here. And I was like, Jimmy, can I give you $50 and can you run the lights? I'm going to, I rented this theater for $300. I went to church, I handed out flyers.

Kevin Goetz (19:40):

Where was it?

Nia Vardalos (19:41):

The very, very first time was at the tiny Acme Theater on La Brea.

Kevin Goetz (19:46):

Oh my God, I love it. 

Nia Vardalos (19:46):

I know. Isn't this crazy? And so I went to church, asked people, we were starved for stories about ourselves. And I said, it's called My Big Fat Greek Wedding and the tickets are $10. And of course the Greeks came. So I walked out, I mean it was 80 people at the show and I

Kevin Goetz (20:02):

Full house.

Nia Vardalos (20:03):

Full house, yeah. And it was a nine nines theater. All Greeks. All Greeks. And I did the show and it went,

Kevin Goetz (20:09):

But it was a screenplay.

Nia Vardalos (20:10):

Well, because I couldn't get the screenplay read, I jumped on stage to do it as a show.

Kevin Goetz (20:15):

So you rewrote it.

Nia Vardalos (20:16):

Actually, it was pretty easy because when you do storytelling, which my whole family or storytellers, all I did was point form

Kevin Goetz (20:22):

Really

Nia Vardalos (20:23):

What I would do. So I took the screenplay, which opened with a dad in the car with his daughter. And I walked on stage and I said, okay, you know, I'm gonna tell you about my wedding. You know that because it's in the title, but lemme tell you about my dad. One morning my dad was driving me and I just told the story.

Kevin Goetz (20:39):

How many people were in this?

Nia Vardalos (20:40):

Just me. It was just me telling the stories.

Kevin Goetz (20:41):

It's a one woman show. Yeah. <laugh> incredible.

Nia Vardalos (20:44):

Isn't it nuts. And I didn't even know the Writer's Guild. I had sent the screenplay off to the Library of Congress and the Greeks kept coming. Like I'd go to church and they'd say, when are you gonna do that show again? I'd go Friday and I'd rent the theater again. And then I started to do it Thursday, Friday and Saturday. And the show started to sell out. And I thought, okay, I have to invest in myself and I have to do an ad. So I placed an ad in the Los Angeles Times and it was $500 for,

Kevin Goetz (21:11):

Where’d you have money for this?

Nia Vardalos (21:12):

Because I was making a little bit of money, but also making money off voiceover. I did toll house cookies. I was the voice for that – toll house bakes the very best. That was me. And then I did beer for Canada. It was like an idyllic quiet dock. Guys were on the dock, fishing night was falling. And it was for I think Molson's beer or Bud Light or something. And all I said was, it's what guys do best. You know, like that. Like I just had a lot. I was making money. 

Kevin Goetz (21:43):

One of my first voiceovers was Stridex pimple medication. <laugh>. It was a girl who said Romeo Romeo. Where for Art Thou Romeo. And I said, I am here, but I'm with Pimples. <laugh>. That was one of my first jobs. I was 15.

Nia Vardalos (21:58):

Oh, it's so good.

Kevin Goetz (21:58):

I am here. I'm with pimples. Pimples, <laugh>. Anyway, so that's so good. That is the saving grace of so many actors. Yeah. How long did you have the script sort of out in the world? And how many rejections did you get before you decided to do it as a show?

Nia Vardalos (22:15):

I got, I sent it to Paramount, not knowing that you just can't send a script. And it came back. I sent it to quite a few places and I realized, by then my agents had dropped me, my managers had dropped me. I asked them if they'd read the screenplay. I found it on the floor behind her desk by the trash, like covered in dust. And I went, that's it. That's my screenplay. 'cause I'd printed it and she put

Kevin Goetz (22:38):

It, oh, I'm gonna cry. I can't, I'm serious.

Nia Vardalos (22:39):

Like it's really, it's a lesson, isn't it?

Kevin Goetz (22:41):

Yeah,

Nia Vardalos (22:41):

Yeah. She put it on her desk and she used one finger and she slid it across the desk. To me, this is why I hire women and I'm kind to women because we need two believe in each other.

Kevin Goetz (22:54):

Amen

Nia Vardalos (22:54):

To say to me, you're an actress. Whoever told you you could write a screenplay is exactly the line. And I thought, okay, the phone wasn't ringing. So I called myself with a job and that's when I went to the theater, rented the theater, asked Jimmy Otto to be the stage manager. Went to the shift. For $50.

Kevin Goetz (23:13):

And do lights.

Nia Vardalos (23:14):

And do lights. Yeah. I never made money on the show, but I broke even.

Kevin Goetz (23:18):

And you kept investing

Nia Vardalos (23:21):

In myself. You have to. You have to believe in yourself. And you have to say what my mom always said to me, which is why not you? But when she said, why not you, it also was, why not you as in go volunteer? Why not you?

Kevin Goetz (23:34):

Of service

Nia Vardalos (23:35):

Do something. Why not you? If you saw somebody hurt or fall, go help them. You still with us? Why not you? Yeah, my mom's the best. What's her name? Doreen.

Kevin Goetz (23:44):

Doreen. God bless you. Yeah. And I completely share that with you. I didn't at first have a mother who was as supportive. They weren't unsupportive, but they didn't understand me and my kind of superpower. And they didn't know what I was capable of. So when I started then making money doing it and people really were applauding me for it, then they became the staunchest supporters. But man, that thing instilled in you. And then to have that, I'm going back to earlier in our interview, that person say to you about your look. What was the,

*Nia Vardalos (24:17):

So now we're in the time period of, I've written the screenplay, I gave it to the agency. She didn't read it. It wasn't a time where agents could get something made or what. And she just didn't know what to do with me. And she said, I've been sending your headshot out. No one wants to see you. I can't get you a job. You're not fat enough to be a character actress and you're not pretty enough to be a leading lady and your last name Vardalos, what are you? And I said, I'm Greek. And she said, okay, we're gonna change your name and tell people you're Hispanic. And I said, well that's incredibly disingenuous and inauthentic. And also for the nine

Kevin Goetz (24:56):

Offensive.

Nia Vardalos (24:57):

Yeah, for the nine Hispanic parts out there. Can they please go to Hispanic people? It would be wrong for me to walk into a room and pretend to be Hispanic when Hispanic people are struggling to find work too. So I just said, that's not gonna work. And she said, then I can't represent you. And I went to get my head shots, remember how expensive they were?

Kevin Goetz (25:16):

<laugh>. And

Nia Vardalos (25:16):

There were, there were 96 headshots there.

Kevin Goetz (25:19):

And you gave her a hundred.

Nia Vardalos (25:20):

Yeah. So she hadn't been sending them out. And that's when I thought,

Kevin Goetz (25:24):

They don't think we know this.

*Nia Vardalos (25:25):

Yeah. So that's why I decided to just create my own work. Even if I'd stayed and did the show and nothing had happened. I was happy. I was really creatively happy.

Kevin Goetz (25:36):

You were getting that itch scratched.

Nia Vardalos (25:38):

Yes. And when I first wrote the screenplay and it didn't get read and then I got dropped by my agency and my management company. I had sent it off to the Library of Congress 'cause I didn't know that You can just send it to the Writer's Guild to have it copyrighted.

Kevin Goetz (25:52):

Yeah. You get the number.

Nia Vardalos (25:53):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (25:53):

And they record it.

*Nia Vardalos (25:54):

Yeah. I didn't know. So that's how I copyrighted it. And when I placed the ad in the paper, $500, Rita Wilson and Tom Hanks had just come back from seeing a lot of theater in Los Angeles. And Rita told me that they were talking about seeing more theater in LA and she opened the paper that day and there was my ad and she said, let's go see this.

Kevin Goetz (26:16):

God bless them. You mean that you hadn't known Rita before this?

Nia Vardalos (26:20):

No. Hadn't known her.

Kevin Goetz (26:21):

So they showed up and Tom was already a big star.

Nia Vardalos (26:24):

Yeah. Rita came first with all the female members.

Kevin Goetz (26:27):

Ah. So Tom hadn't come the first time. Mm-hmm

Nia Vardalos (26:29):

<affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (26:29):

She came with her girlfriends.

Nia Vardalos (26:30):

Yeah. And her mama and the nieces.

Kevin Goetz (26:32):

And she's Greek.

Nia Vardalos (26:33):

Yep. And Tom was baptized Greek and uh

Kevin Goetz (26:36):

Tom was baptized Greek. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>. We dumped him. That's crazy. Yeah. <laugh>. Alright, so she comes backstage and says what?

Nia Vardalos (26:43):

Yeah, she waits for me actually in the lobby. 'cause the theater's so small that there is no backstage.

Kevin Goetz (26:47):

Backstage.

Nia Vardalos (26:48):

There’s no backstage.

Kevin Goetz (26:48):

I gave it a metaphor. Yes, exactly. Speaking, metaphorically speaking.

*Nia Vardalos (26:51):

And her first words to me were, I love you. Is that unbelievable? And I said, I love you. There are so few Greek actors. I followed your whole career. I'm so happy to meet you. This is our joke. We've told the story a million times, but here it is. She said, this should be a movie. And I said, I've written the screenplay. And she said, can you send it to us? And I always joke that I handed her the screenplay so fast that her hair flew back.

Kevin Goetz (27:19):

Was it literally with you there?

Nia Vardalos (27:21):

Yeah, I had it.

Kevin Goetz (27:22):

You're the best <laugh>. You're the frigging best. You know, my manager when I was a kid always said, have your pictures and resumes in your trunk of your car. Yeah. That was Barbara Jarrett <laugh>. And I was like, okay. And there were times when it really paid off.

Nia Vardalos (27:36):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (27:37):

So they say we wanna option it.

Nia Vardalos (27:39):

Yeah. Tom came to the very next show and my phone number was on the poster. My home phone number <LAUGH> eight eight two six one three six. So safe. That was my number. So safe. What was it? 8 8 2 6 1 3 6 8 1 8. No, 2 1 3.

Kevin Goetz (27:55):

2 1 3.

Nia Vardalos (27:56):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (27:57):

Okay. So they call you.

Nia Vardalos (27:58):

Yeah. Tom calls. First my friend Brian called me and said, please hold for Tom Hanks. And I went, oh my God. And he goes, it's no, it's Brian. You wanna go for lunch? That's how funny my friends are. Everybody knew that Tom had come to the show. And then I was on pins and needles wondering and it really wasn't Tom. It was not Tom.

Kevin Goetz (28:18):

That was a dick move Brian.

Nia Vardalos (28:19):

It's a such a good dick move. Brian Blendell. And so then they did call and Tom said, hi, this is Tom Hanks. And all I could hear was Forrest Gump on the phone. Like, oh my God, it's Tom Hanks.

Kevin Goetz (28:32):

Truly one of the nicest guys in the world. In our world.

Nia Vardalos (28:35):

In the world. Yeah. 

Kevin Goetz (28:36):

In our business.

Nia Vardalos (28:36):

And he said, I'm gonna put you on the phone with my partner Gary Goetzman. We've just formed our new company Playtone. And I said, oh, like that thing you do. 'cause I'm a super fan

Kevin Goetz (28:45):

Doing that thing You do.

Nia Vardalos (28:47):

Yeah. Oh my God,

Kevin Goetz (28:48):

I worked on that movie.

Nia Vardalos (28:49):

Oh, of course. That movie must have tested great.

Kevin Goetz (28:52):

It's got

Nia Vardalos (28:53):

So much heart.

Kevin Goetz (28:53):

It did. It did. But Tom directed it. It was a love of his.

Nia Vardalos (28:57):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (28:57):

Alright, so,

Nia Vardalos (28:58):

Okay. So he calls and says, we're gonna do it independently. All the craziest things that happened. Here's what I didn't know, what they didn't tell me, because they're solid gold. Gary and Tom and Rita did not tell me that they shopped it to studios who said, love the script, lose the girl. And they didn't tell me that. So I waited for 18 months not knowing what was happening. And then Paul Brooks went to Playtone and said, how

Kevin Goetz (29:25):

Did Paul Brooks know about this?

Nia Vardalos (29:26):

They were shopping it, looking for independent financing.

Kevin Goetz (29:28):

And they went to his company,

*Nia Vardalos (29:29):

Which was Norm Waitt Gateway Computers and Norm Waitt I think had spent some summers in Greece, as had Paul Brooks and HBO said, you can have two and a half million. And then we were looking for the other two and a half and Gary and Tom had asked HBO for a theatrical release, which they never did. And then we looked for the other two and a half. Gateway computers comes in and the rest is history. And then here I am playing the bride.

Kevin Goetz (29:55):

And they would not abandon you.

Nia Vardalos (29:57):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (29:59):

When we come back, we are going to continue to talk to Nia about life after my Big Fat Greek Wedding. We'll be back in a moment. Listeners, The Motion Picture Television Fund is a non-profit charitable organization that supports working and retired members of the entertainment community. This wonderfully run organization offers assistance for living and aging with dignity and purpose in the areas of health and social services, including temporary financial assistance, case management, and residential living. And has been a crucial lifeline to thousands during and beyond critical times that our industry continues to experience. To learn more, visit mptf.com. Please join me in helping others in our industry during times of need. There are so many ways to offer support and get involved. Thank you. We are back with the incomparable Nia Vardalos. Did I say it right? Vardalos.

Nia Vardalos (31:09):

Yeah. Vardalos. Yeah. Sometimes we say Vardalas or Vardales.

Kevin Goetz (31:12):

Because I heard you say Vardalos.

Nia Vardalos (31:14):

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (31:14):

But it's an Os.

Nia Vardalos (31:15):

It is an Os. And I think I,

Kevin Goetz (31:17):

Am I saying it more in the Greek kind of way?

Nia Vardalos (31:19):

I think it's my American accent.

Kevin Goetz (31:20):

Please support me. Compliment me.

Nia Vardalos (31:21):

 <laugh>. Yeah, <laugh>. It's just so Greek. It's like we're cousins. I actually thought, am I related to Kevin Goetz <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (31:31):

So you now have leverage.

Nia Vardalos (31:35):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (31:35):

You have leverage. You make this movie. It is truly a phenomenon. I've had friends who worked on it like Paula Silver and other friends in the industry who have had a hand in it. Like Bob and Jeanne Bernie. There were a lot of people who came out afterwards to claim they worked on it. <laugh>, because everyone, you know, what is it? Failure has many orphans. Success has many parents.

Nia Vardalos (31:58):

Many parents. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (31:59):

But I know it did take a village to get that successful.

Nia Vardalos (32:03):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:04):

And I really do appreciate that. So you are being offered things, you are being courted by for a deal here or there. What happened afterwards in terms of your career?

Nia Vardalos (32:14):

Well I'm friends with Jon Favreau from Chicago Improv Days. And John said to me, oh my God, you must have been offered every deal. Like he was. And no I wasn't. I was not offered studio deals at all. I think they wanted to just toss out this, just toss me outta the deck. And luckily I'd written another movie. I had Connie and Carla already ready to go.

Kevin Goetz (32:36):

It was already written.

Nia Vardalos (32:36):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> ready to go. And so

Kevin Goetz (32:38):

Universal.

Nia Vardalos (32:39):

Spyglass, we developed it.

Kevin Goetz (32:41):

Who came to you? Gary Barber. Jonathan Glickman.

Nia Vardalos (32:44):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:44):

He's been a guest here.

Nia Vardalos (32:45):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:46):

I love that man.

Nia Vardalos (32:47):

His wife is the best.

Kevin Goetz (32:48):

Christie.

Nia Vardalos (32:49):

Yep.

Kevin Goetz (32:49):

They were recently honored with the Epilepsy Foundation, which really was extraordinary to see them both get what they deserve 'cause they are so much of service. And I've always loved his dad, Dan Glickman, who was the head of the MPAA.

Nia Vardalos (33:05):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (33:06):

And like he's a really super cool guy. Sorry, I just had to say that 'cause he's terrific. So you were saying about Spyglass

Nia Vardalos (33:13):

Spyglass. Yeah. And I wanted to say, and

Kevin Goetz (33:14):

Roger Birnbaum was there too, right? 

Nia Vardalos (33:16):

Yeah, that's right.

Kevin Goetz (33:16):

Okay.

Nia Vardalos (33:17):

So yeah, Gary Barber, Jonathan Glickman, Roger Birnbaum.

Kevin Goetz (33:20):

And the three of them said, we want to do this.

Nia Vardalos (33:23):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (33:23):

Tell us quickly, what's the log line of Connie and Carla?

Nia Vardalos (33:26):

Connie and Carla is about two women who do musical theater in an airport lounge <laugh> witness a bad crime and have to go on the run. And so they decide to hide in West Hollywood at a drag club. And so they go from being musical theater girls to like really finding their femininity as drag queens.

Kevin Goetz (33:44):

You said to me before we went on air, I think Connie and Carla was ahead of its time. It sounds pretty much of its time. Why did it not hit like the movie before it? Because it's so funny.

*Nia Vardalos (33:58):

Thank you. I think you have to make decisions as an artist. If I wanted to, at that time I could have done my big fatGreek wedding 2. We could be on number 12 by now. But I would have, I think, uh, just emotionally caved in creatively. I want, I have such an affinity for our gay and lesbian and trans community and I thought I could do musical theater with this story. And I wanted to write something that was outside my world, outside my comfort zone. Although even though we're 27 first cousins, so of course by percentages, of course we have two gay cousins that we know of. Right. The rest could be. And each of them, when they came out, one was an easy journey, one was not. And one of them perhaps isn't even out fully. And that's unfair. And so I feel like we're supposed to use our voices for

Kevin Goetz (34:52):

What's your mother.

Nia Vardalos (34:52):

The people we care about.

Kevin Goetz (34:53):

It's Doreen.

Nia Vardalos (34:54):

It's Doreen.

Kevin Goetz (34:54):

No serious.

Nia Vardalos (34:55):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (34:56):

All things point to Doreen.

Nia Vardalos (34:57):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (34:57):

No, but seriously, that's the path she puts you on.

Nia Vardalos (34:59):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (35:00):

Do something with your own voice.

Nia Vardalos (35:02):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (35:03):

And that doesn't necessarily mean follow your dream as an actor. It means follow your dream as being of service.

Nia Vardalos (35:10):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (35:10):

Which is what I got from what you said before.

Nia Vardalos (35:13):

Yeah. I felt like I could weave a little story of tolerance in which, if you look at my movies, it's kind of in there all the time. But no one really knows it. Like in my big fat Greek wedding 1, Angelo, Joey Fatone’s character is gay, no one knows it. In number 2, he comes out, in Connie and Carla we're all gay.

Kevin Goetz (35:33):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nia Vardalos (35:33):

Totally. In my big Fat Greek wedding three, we have a character who, when we cast them, I wrote to this person, I, I opened it to all genders. The auditions.

Kevin Goetz (35:43):

One of the things that also happened to you is you had a child.

Nia Vardalos (35:46):

I adopted my child. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (35:48):

I didn't know you adopted your child.

Nia Vardalos (35:50):

Wow.

Kevin Goetz (35:50):

Yeah.

Nia Vardalos (35:50):

Well one of the things that happened to me in

Kevin Goetz (35:52):

How beautiful is that?

*Nia Vardalos (35:53):

Yeah. It was the greatest experience of my life. What happened is during my big fat Greek wedding 1, before, during and after, I was in a fist fight with Mother Nature where I was trying to have a biological child. And now you can see how I'm completely dispassionate about it because I'm so grateful that I didn't have a biological child 'cause I wouldn't have met my real daughter. So thank God. And you don't know what the plan is. At the time it was so painful. It was so awful. On the morning that I was nominated for an academy award, I was driving to the fertility clinic. There was such a rain fall on the 10 that I thought, this is where it ends. My story is a tragedy actually. I thought.

Kevin Goetz (36:38):

But if you died at that moment, you would've really accomplished something <laugh>. Yeah. That very few people had.

Nia Vardalos (36:43):

But it would've been just a sad Hollywood story. She was nominated for Academy Award and then she died on the way to the fertility clinic.

Kevin Goetz (36:49):

Exactly.

Nia Vardalos (36:49):

And I remember gripping the steering wheel. Yeah. <laugh> the irony. It's so darkly funny. But you know, I was like, no, no, there's got to be something else in this. And then I found out about American foster care and how we have 350,000 legally emancipated kids in this country.

Kevin Goetz (37:05):

How old was your girl?

Nia Vardalos (37:07):

Almost three.

Kevin Goetz (37:09):

How was the acclimation in the beginning?

Nia Vardalos (37:11):

It was terrible. It was difficult. I was an emotional and physical punching bag for this child who did everything possible to let me know that this was not the choice <laugh>. And man, I commend that. And so I wrote a book about it because,

Kevin Goetz (37:28):

What was it called?

Nia Vardalos (37:29):

It's called Instant Mom 'cause I had 14 hours notice after 10 years of trying.

Kevin Goetz (37:33):

That's how it works.

Nia Vardalos (37:34):

14 hours notice.

Kevin Goetz (37:34):

we got a kid. Do you want the kid?

Nia Vardalos (37:35):

Yes, I do. That's exactly what happened. So I'm friends with Katie Couric, which is a massive name drop. And she's such a good woman that she kept my secret for so long. She knew when we went to the 2004 Olympics, what turmoil I was in. And by the time I adopted my child, I saw Katie and she said, you've got to tell this story. And I said no 'cause I'm really private. Actually. I do tell a lot about my life.

Kevin Goetz (38:03):

I get it.

Nia Vardalos (38:04):

Yeah. I keep a lot back.

Kevin Goetz (38:05):

A lot of people don't understand when I say that, I'm shy.

Nia Vardalos (38:09):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (38:09):

I can play the game.

Nia Vardalos (38:10):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (38:11):

I can do it. I can go in front of literally thousands of people and not even barely be nervous.

Nia Vardalos (38:16):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (38:17):

But at the end of the day, if I'm say in a bookstore and I'm invested in a book reading, let's say, and all of a sudden Neil goes, Kev, Kev. I go, I like flip out. There's something so invasive about that.

Nia Vardalos (38:28):

Yeah. Do you know? So exposing.

Kevin Goetz (38:29):

Exactly.

Nia Vardalos (38:30):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (38:31):

Isn't that strange?

Nia Vardalos (38:31):

Yes. Kev.

Kevin Goetz (38:32):

Can you relate to what I just

Nia Vardalos (38:33):

Yes. We're introverted extroverts of us.

Kevin Goetz (38:36):

Wow. So what's your relationship now with your daughter?

Nia Vardalos (38:39):

I'm so lucky because this is a really funny wise person. Mark DeCarlo says, this is an old soul.

Kevin Goetz (38:48):

Oh, old soul.

Nia Vardalos (38:49):

Yeah. Yeah. Been here before. I'm so lucky.

Kevin Goetz (38:52):

God, the lessons that you probably have given each other. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Is so great.

Nia Vardalos (38:55):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (38:56):

So going back to your professional life, that probably gave your life a whole new meaning.

Nia Vardalos (39:02):

Yeah. So in 2004, 2006, 2008, I kind of disappeared. And it's because I was one, grieving, two, when you go through fertility treatments, your body's not your own.

Kevin Goetz (39:15):

Well you mean you really went through a long time. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Before you adopted

Nia Vardalos (39:18):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (39:19):

Oh, interesting. And now you dropped a little bomb. You said Academy Award <laugh>. Now you can't just throw that out and not expect someone to say <laugh>. Where were you at 5:20 in the morning?

Nia Vardalos (39:33):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (39:34):

On that day?

Nia Vardalos (39:35):

Yeah. I was in fertility treatment. So I was so tired that I slept in and my best friend Kathy Greenwood called and the phone rang and I jumped outta my skin and she was crying. No, I'm gonna cry. I'm so lucky. She's been my bestie my whole life. You know, just, um, about how long you know her? We, well, I always say my whole life, but my whole professional life.

Kevin Goetz (39:59):

Yeah.

Nia Vardalos (40:00):

I'm crying like I'm on Oprah's couch.

Kevin Goetz (40:02):

I tend to do that with folks

Nia Vardalos (40:03):

When I met her. Right.

Kevin Goetz (40:05):

Suzanne de Passe was crying. Yeah. <laugh>.

Nia Vardalos (40:07):

Yes. Yesterday. It's 'cause it's a gentle space in here. Um, when I met Kathy Greenwood, we were in Second City together in Toronto and we started writing material together. We are physically polar opposites, but emotionally and psychically joined.

Kevin Goetz (40:23):

Why are you not married? I know <laugh>. I mean, come on.

Nia Vardalos (40:27):

She is just so wonderful. We're so boringly straight. Both of us.

Kevin Goetz (40:31):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. Yeah. No, it's just like the perfect polar opposites. But the core values are identical.

Nia Vardalos (40:36):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (40:37):

So she calls you, she says, oh my God.

Nia Vardalos (40:39):

Yeah. She's crying and I say, what happened? What happened? And she says,

Kevin Goetz (40:43):

You didn't know that the announcements would be.

Nia Vardalos (40:44):

I knew, but you know when the phone rings at five o'clock in the morning. Oh yeah. And it's dark. And you've been in this haze of all of it.

Kevin Goetz (40:50):

But of all the people that could have called you.

Nia Vardalos (40:51):

My bestie.

Kevin Goetz (40:52):

It was Kathy.

*Nia Vardalos (40:52):

Yeah. And she, it was a perfect actually call waiting, call waiting, call waiting. So it was Kathy first. She's crying. I say, what? What happened 'cause I thought something bad happened. And she said, what happened? You got nominated for an Academy Award, you asshole.

Kevin Goetz (41:09):

What were you nominated for?

Nia Vardalos (41:10):

Uh, best original screenplay.

Kevin Goetz (41:12):

Damn.

Nia Vardalos (41:13):

I know. It's such a smart girl category. I love it so much.

Kevin Goetz (41:16):

It's the greatest. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it's a moniker that never leaves you.

Nia Vardalos (41:20):

Yeah. I make everyone say it <laugh>. I love it. I love it. I love it. Like get the chicken outta the oven. Academy Award nominee <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (41:28):

<laugh>. Uh, that must have been an exceptional night for you.

Nia Vardalos (41:30):

You. Yeah, it was pretty great. So the call waiting was Kathy, my parents, and then Tom and Rita.

Kevin Goetz (41:37):

I'm gonna cry.

Nia Vardalos (41:38):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (41:39):

All right. So moving on to projects. You are now back in the industry in the late aughts. Yeah. And it's now becoming in 2010s, 11, 12. And what happens to Nias professional life? What's your evolution? What do you see yourself wanting to do? Where's your part, your passion?

Nia Vardalos (41:58):

Yeah. At the time, I came knocking at the door and asked, can I come back into the industry? After I became a mom and I wanted to go back on camera and it didn't really work. You know, people forget. And so I thought, oh, I'll do a Greek movie, which will be good for my soul and also we will reconnect with the audience. So I did a movie called My Life and Ruins that Mike Reese wrote, he's a Simpsons writer and I really had a great time.

Kevin Goetz (42:21):

Such a fun, fun movie.

Nia Vardalos (42:23):

So fun. And Rachel Dratch is in it.

Kevin Goetz (42:25):

Wait, who directed it? Donald Petrie. Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Nia Vardalos (42:27):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (42:28):

He just had dinner at my house a few weeks ago.

Nia Vardalos (42:30):

What a tiny world.

Kevin Goetz (42:31):

I go back with him for years and years.

Nia Vardalos (42:33):

I just saw him at the DGA feature directors. Him and Peggy. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (42:35):

They're amazing people.

Nia Vardalos (42:36):

Very.

Kevin Goetz (42:36):

His dad was, was a legend.

Nia Vardalos (42:39):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (42:39):

Dan Petrie Sr.

Nia Vardalos (42:40):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (42:41):

Directed one of my most proud accomplishments as a producer. I produced a movie called Wild Iris. It was Dan's last movie with Laura Linney and Gena Rowlands.

Nia Vardalos (42:51):

Oh my.

Kevin Goetz (42:51):

And Emil Hirsch. I used to run a theater and it was a play that I was developing and ended up doing it as a movie. And I became so close with the Petrie family. He became a grandpa to me basically. And Donald became like a brother and Dan Jr. And June and Mary and Dorothea my favorite family in the business. And he did a great job on that.

Nia Vardalos (43:13):

I agree. I completely agree. Do you guys stay in touch? We only saw each other just recently, but no, not really. 

Kevin Goetz (43:19):

I mean, once I Became along you'll come over for dinner and I'll have another dinner party.

Nia Vardalos (43:21):

Thank you. That's so nice. Yeah, I saw him. We were so happy to see each other. He just worked with one of my friends, Karen McCullah, which is great. I think they went to Thailand.

Kevin Goetz (43:29):

You should hear Donald's interview on this program. And I was in London when I actually did that episode. And Donald is unbelievable when you hear the people he's worked with. Yeah. It's on Jack Lemon. Jack Lemon, Walter Mattau. Exactly. Yeah. But it goes on and on. Julia Roberts, Mystic Pizza.

Nia Vardalos (43:47):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (43:48):

You know, I mean the production designers, the editors, the cinematographers.

Nia Vardalos (43:52):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (43:52):

Had such a great career. Yeah. And he's one of the most decent humans. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. As you are. So that's why movies like that are fun. See that movie everyone by the way? <laugh>. So then you go back to your Greek roots.

Nia Vardalos (44:04):

Well I wanna ask you, what's the theater that you ran?

Kevin Goetz (44:06):

I ran something called Central Coast Repertory Theater in San Luis Obispo. And it was the only really professional theater 'cause I got a small professional theater contract from equity to operate between LA and San Francisco. So we would, we would cast and work from LA and then go up for a long weekend for a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday, Sunday, Sunday performance. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Five performances a week.

Nia Vardalos (44:28):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kevin Goetz (44:29):

So like you, that kind of schedule was new to a non-theater going audience. But funnily there was an audience who were kind of transplants from LA and San Francisco who were used to theater.

Nia Vardalos (44:43):

Ah-huh.

Kevin Goetz (44:43):

Mixed with farmers and people who had never been to the theater. So I was very judicious about the kind of material I made. I wanted to do original work or American premieres. Like I did the American premiere of an Australian play called Double Act. I did the West Coast premiere of my Children by Africa, Athol Fugard. Oh my. Um, I did uh, the Glass Menagerie where I put myself in the role of Tom. And we had Kay St. Germaine as Amanda. And Laura was a wonderful actress. Actress on a TV series. And the Gentleman Caller was terrific and directed by Dennis Erdman. And Yeardley Smith I remember was married to my gentleman caller. Then one great performance that stood out was when I was turning 30 and I did a benefit and it was called A Night at the Tony's.

Nia Vardalos (45:30):

Oh wow.

Kevin Goetz (45:30):

And it was all Tony Award winners or nominees, I'm not sure. And it was hosted by Obba Babatunde. Oh.

(45:37):

And we wrote original music and we couldn't sell tickets at first people didn't think it was real <laugh> that we had all of these amazing talents coming to San Luis Obispo to our theater Central Coast Repertory. And it was a great, great performance. We ended up selling out, making money. My partner Anete Gillespie Carlin and I stayed as artistic director and producers for about four or five years. We did some wonderful work and then, you know, I'll tell you what happened. Unless there's a group of people who are going to steer you into fundraising, it's a drag to beg for money for funds to maintain a theater.

Nia Vardalos (46:22):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (46:22):

So I kind of came to Hollywood to produce movies, and use my connections there. Remember I was a focus group moderator as you're well aware, but I became a hyphenate as a producer and within three years I produced five television movies and that got me into the producing of film. So I was a hyphenate as a focus group moderator and a producer.

Nia Vardalos (46:41):

Yeah. Yeah. I remember Gary Goetzman telling me that, that you were a working person in the industry. But I used to watch you 'cause you've done two of my movies, Connie and Carla for sure. Maybe I Hate Valentine's Day, I think it was you. Mm-hmm. When the person said, she looks so old. And I was like, you're amazing. And also my big Fat Greek wedding. But what I love about what you do is you guide them to be candid without being negative. It's a beautiful thing.

Kevin Goetz (47:08):

So if I were to hear the comment that you just said, I would say, well that's so unhelpful. Thank you so much. And move on. You see.

Nia Vardalos (47:14):

You know what you said and it was fantastic. You said, oh honey, it happens to the best of us. <laugh>. There you go. It was so there.

Kevin Goetz (47:19):

That sounds like something I would've

Nia Vardalos (47:20):

You lightened it.

Kevin Goetz (47:22):

Yeah. <laugh>

Nia Vardalos (47:22):

And made her okay with it. But it was like, wow.

Kevin Goetz (47:27):

Yeah. I don't know how

Nia Vardalos (47:28):

She clarified it 'cause she felt so bad. She went No, no. I mean 'cause her hair is blonde now. Like she tried to.

Kevin Goetz (47:35):

I had a person at a focus group once say that this feels like it was written by a 12-year-old. And the writer was three rows behind the focus group and it was a double academy award winning writer. I was taken off the picture. He didn't want me on the movie because I somehow in his mind allowed that to come out of someone's mouth. So a couple years later I approached the guy who I knew pretty well and I said, you had me taken off the movie 'cause of that. I thought we had a different kind of dance. You know? Yeah. That we had a trust. And he said, I never did that. And I know it's true because my very, very close source would never have lied to me. And so, you know, people's feelings really get hurt. But I'm a guy that wants everyone to succeed all the time. It only benefits all of us, you know?

Nia Vardalos (48:28):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (48:29):

What was the screening story you remember other than that? Was there something else, a moment in a test screening where you were like, that was so helpful that that happened.

*Nia Vardalos (48:38):

Yes. In my big fat greek wedding 3, the audience told us that while the scenery was beautiful, they wanted to see the characters more. And I realized that I had let my love of Greece really push me to the point where I only wanted to show it. And what am I supposed to be doing telling a story. And the scenery doesn't tell the story. It sets the story. The faces tell the story.

Kevin Goetz (49:04):

How did you reconcile that?

Nia Vardalos (49:06):

I had so much footage and I.

Kevin Goetz (49:08):

 Oh, You did?

Nia Vardalos (49:08):

I just trimmed.

Kevin Goetz (49:09):

Great. Yeah. Love it.

Nia Vardalos (49:10):

Oh, I listen. I love a good note.

Kevin Goetz (49:12):

Did you direct that?

Nia Vardalos (49:12):

I directed it. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (49:13):

Did you direct part two?

Nia Vardalos (49:14):

No, I directed three because the cast said, uh, when they were asking me during two, the financier and Gary Goetzman were saying, we want you to do a three. And the cast said, we'll only do a three if you direct.

Kevin Goetz (49:27):

Was Lainie in that.

Nia Vardalos (49:27):

Uhhuh <affirmative>. She was in number three too. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (49:30):

How is Lainie?

Nia Vardalos (49:30):

She's great. Let me tell you a story about Lainie.

Kevin Goetz (49:33):

Well let me first tell you that I saw Lainie's understudy of Barbara and funny girl, it's online. You can see her doing the number.

Nia Vardalos (49:43):

Are you kidding me?

Kevin Goetz (49:44):

Don't rain on my parade. It's mind blowing.

Nia Vardalos (49:48):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (49:48):

She was exceptional.

Nia Vardalos (49:51):

Yeah, absolutely exceptional.

Kevin Goetz (49:52):

What a talent.

Nia Vardalos (49:53):

Yes. And still she can make any line. Great. This is what I love about John Corbett too. He tosses away my lines.

Kevin Goetz (49:59):

I had the biggest man crush on that guy.

Nia Vardalos (50:01):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (50:02):

<laugh>. It's worth it.

Nia Vardalos (50:02):

He's a feminist too. This is my imitation of him when I'll rewrite his lines 'cause I'm constantly rewriting after the first, you know, the rehearsal with the run through. And then I'll hear something and then I'll reverse something or change it and I'll just take his pages. And this is my imitation of him. He takes it, reads it, and goes, okay baby. And it's not sexist, it's just sweet.

Kevin Goetz (50:23):

Oh.

Nia Vardalos (50:23):

He's the only guy who I would be like, call me baby.

Kevin Goetz (50:26):

He’s got the greatest, uh, kind of quality, doesn't he?

Nia Vardalos (50:29):

Yes, he does.

Kevin Goetz (50:30):

He's he's still friends with him, I guess.

Nia Vardalos (50:31):

Oh yeah. Yeah. We all love each other. We see each other a lot 'cause something happened to us,

Kevin Goetz (50:35):

Andrea.

Nia Vardalos (50:36):

Oh yeah. She's a joy to write for.

Kevin Goetz (50:38):

She's unbelievable.

Nia Vardalos (50:39):

Yeah. You know what I do to her all the time? I'll do her coverage last. Even if I'm not directing. I'll just go, let's do her covers last because I know she loves to go blue and crack up the crew as do I.

Kevin Goetz (50:52):

<laugh>. You do too.

Nia Vardalos (50:52):

Yeah. So I'll just be on.

Kevin Goetz (50:54):

You've been very polite on this podcast.

Nia Vardalos (50:55):

Oh yeah.

Kevin Goetz (50:56):

No, I, I think I dropped the F-bomb maybe once, maybe twice.

Nia Vardalos (50:59):

I don't know. No, I'm a dirty girl, but I'm sophisticated when I'm on a podcast <laugh>. But yeah, I will just feed her things to say in character as Voula. Like I'll just toss her new lines and she'll do them like that. She won't look at me and go, what.

Kevin Goetz (51:13):

You gonna tell me about Lainey?

Nia Vardalos (51:14):

Oh yeah. Lemme tell you about Lainey. So during my big fat greek wedding 1, it was clear that John Corbett and I had crushes on each other, which is important.

Kevin Goetz (51:21):

So the chemistry was so obvious.

Nia Vardalos (51:23):

Yeah, super obvious. And nothing ever happened.

Kevin Goetz (51:25):

Did you ever consummate?

Nia Vardalos (51:26):

No, we joking. We did not <laugh>. 

Kevin Goetz (51:27):

Like she'sGonna tell me. Like she's gonna tell me.

Nia Vardalos (51:29):

I'll tell you how you'll be able to know that I'm telling the truth because Lainie Kazan said to me, after the first kissing scene, they wipe you down like a concubine. You know, they come into this, this thing and they take off your lipstick. And so I looked over because I'm like, beet red, I'm kissing John Corbett. I've written this movie. I didn't think it was gonna get made people. And then I looked over and there was Lainie Kazan, and she's looking at me with her arms crossed. And she goes, come here. So I walk over to her and she goes, do you wanna go to a movie on the weekend? And I said, yeah, Lainie Kazan, rookie Dust. Like I was so excited. Right? So we get into the taxi slam slam, the door's closed, she turns to me, gets right in my face with their finger and says, don't sleep with John Corbett. And I say, I'm not going to. And she says, yes, you are <laugh>. I go, I'm not. So all this time passes, the movie comes out, we have this big cast dinner.

Kevin Goetz (52:22):

I thought you were gonna say, because I want to

Nia Vardalos (52:23):

Yeah, totally. <laugh>.

Kevin Goetz (52:25):

So this movie comes out, the movie comes out,

Nia Vardalos (52:27):

We're all at this big cast dinner. We're all telling our stories. Everyone's got different stories. I tell that story. John's crying laughing. And I say, down the table to Lainie. I say, and by the way, Lainie Kazan, I did not sleep with John Corbett. And she says, I know you didn't. And I say, thank you. And she said, I asked him.

Kevin Goetz (52:50):

So you remember Doris Roberts? We had her 90th birthday at our house. And she was amazing. A great broad, a great actress, really committed to Broadway, et cetera, et cetera. And I remember her saying, I have a book I wanna write called and I slept with no one or something like that. Like, 'cause she wanted to. Oh wow. But she never slept with any of 'em. I love it. Tell me about what you're up to now. What are you excited about? What is getting you up the morning and going,

Nia Vardalos (53:26):

Whoa. Well, because my Big Fat Greek wedding 3 came out after a pandemic and during the two strikes, I thought that that was the end. I really did. I was really, really sad.

Kevin Goetz (53:38):

The end of what?

Nia Vardalos (53:38):

Of my career, you know, everybody thinks that.

Kevin Goetz (53:41):

I gotta tell you, everyone I talked to

Nia Vardalos (53:43):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (53:43):

Who's in the limelight thinks that they're never gonna work again.

Nia Vardalos (53:46):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (53:47):

People think it gets easier. It doesn't seem to.

Nia Vardalos (53:49):

Yeah. No, I really thought it. So

Kevin Goetz (53:51):

You all have that.

Nia Vardalos (53:52):

We all have it. We all think, well, that was my last job. So years ago I wrote a play called Tiny Beautiful Things. It's an adaptation of Cheryl Strayed's second book. It's an epistolary exchange letters written by real people. And Cheryl Strayed responded to them. Tommy Kail, who directed Hamilton, gave me the book.

Kevin Goetz (54:08):

Book. Oh, that untalented guy.

Nia Vardalos (54:10):

That untalented. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (54:12):

Oh my God.

Nia Vardalos (54:12):

Seriously. He was my friend from the time I did 24 hour plays on Broadway. He was my director and we became friends.

Kevin Goetz (54:20):

And when did you do that?

Nia Vardalos (54:21):

I did it in the two thousands, a few times. And Tommy said, let's be friends. Offered me a Broadway show, but I'd just become a mom. It was Magic Bird. It was a good show. It was about Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

Kevin Goetz (54:33):

Wow.

Nia Vardalos (54:34):

Yeah. I did the reading for Tommy here for Magic Johnson. Actually. That was cool. That was cool. I know. It is a really cool.

Kevin Goetz (54:39):

That's cool.

Nia Vardalos (54:40):

Actually, in the play, there is a line where he reveals his HIV positive diagnosis and his character says to Larry Bird, I'm gonna make it. You know? And I had Magic Johnson at my right elbow and I wanted to turn to him and say, and you did.

Kevin Goetz (54:57):

And you did.

Nia Vardalos (54:58):

How cool, huh?

Kevin Goetz (54:59):

With The help of Cookie.

*Nia Vardalos (55:00):

Oh my God, she's a genius. That woman. I love her. So anyway, when my big Fat Greek wedding 3 came out during the strikes and I couldn't talk about it, couldn't promote it, I had so many stories to tell of how we did it during COVID. Sure. And nope, couldn't do it. So I thought, I'm going to go back to the theater. So my play, when we did it in New York, directed by Tommy Kail, it's the New York Times Critics Pick. I've been published by Samuel French Concord. It has 250 licenses. It's gone all over the world. It's been licensed in Korea, Sri Lanka, Philippines. All because Tommy handed me a book and I loved playing Cheryl Strayed.

Kevin Goetz (55:38):

Is it a movie?

Nia Vardalos (55:39):

It could be. So what I did is I learned it in Greek and my boyfriend, Spiros Katsagans did the translation. We co-directed it. We did it in Athens biggest theater. Do you speak Greek? I do,

Kevin Goetz (55:55):

Did you learn it post child or did you

Nia Vardalos (55:58):

I, I learned it during

Kevin Goetz (55:58):

Your parents are first generation.

Nia Vardalos (56:00):

My mom is second, and my dad was first

Kevin Goetz (56:02):

And they spoke Greek in the house.

Nia Vardalos (56:03):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But my mom has a Canadian Greek accent, like me <laugh>,

Kevin Goetz (56:07):

But I, I couldn't even imagine what that means.

Nia Vardalos (56:09):

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Goetz (56:10):

You say ot.

Nia Vardalos (56:11):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (56:12):

Out.

Nia Vardalos (56:13):

Instead of out house. I'm going oot in a boot.

Kevin Goetz (56:16):

Oh, O out. And I be back to the later. That's how much ADR we've had to do in my Canadian movies. Yeah. <laugh>. I did. I think movies in Canada, in Vancouver.

Nia Vardalos (56:24):

And you're like Uhoh. Yeah. So I decided that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go back on stage and we did it um, at Athens biggest theater, a 1500 seat house. And it went incredibly well. And we're looking

Kevin Goetz (56:36):

Are you like an icon in Greece?

Nia Vardalos (56:38):

I always say it's like spotted.

Kevin Goetz (56:38):

No I'm very serious.

Nia Vardalos (56:40):

Jackie Chan in China.

Kevin Goetz (56:41):

Well, Omar Sharif in Egypt.

Nia Vardalos (56:42):

Yes, exactly.

Kevin Goetz (56:43):

Because we were in Egypt a few years ago and

Nia Vardalos (56:45):

With Omar.

Kevin Goetz (56:46):

Oh wow. No, but, and Rami Malick, the two of them. Oh yeah, no, Omar is, I think

Nia Vardalos (56:50):

Omar, his son, his grandson.

Kevin Goetz (56:51):

He's fabulous. He is. That guy's cool.

Nia Vardalos (56:54):

Yeah, he is. He's a beauty

Kevin Goetz (56:56):

I like him.

Nia Vardalos (56:57):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (56:58):

And I wanna just end with the following. We Greek, we dance. <laugh>. Is that from Zorba?

Nia Vardalos (57:09):

I think it is. I think,

Kevin Goetz (57:10):

Let me say something.

Nia Vardalos (57:10):

I'll teach you something in Greek.

Kevin Goetz (57:12):

Can you go ahead,

Nia Vardalos (57:13):

Uhhuh. Okay. You say Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (57:20):

Kevin Goetz.

Nia Vardalos (57:27):

So you just said, my name is Kevin Goetz and I have three testicles.

Kevin Goetz (57:33):

It's true. <laugh>. It is absolutely true. <laugh>, Nia Vardalos, you're a revelation. I am in love with you for many, many reasons. Thank you so much for sharing, opening up and just being a delicious human <laugh>. Thank you. You're like a baklava.

Nia Vardalos (57:51):

<laugh>. I love it. I'm crispy on the outside, but soft in the middle right here. <laugh>, thank you.

Kevin Goetz (58:00):

To our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. I encourage you to follow Nia on her social media. Also keep an eye out for her online writing workshops. For more insights into filmmaking, audience testing, and the business of Hollywood, I invite you to check out my books, Audienceology and How to Score in Hollywood at Amazon, or through my website at KevinGoetz360.com. You can also follow me on my social media. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I'll welcome the trailblazing and exquisite producer, executive, and screenwriter Suzanne de Passe. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Nia Vardalos
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)