Podcast: Don't Kill the Messenger with Movie Research Expert Kevin Goetz
Guest: Mark Canton

Interview Transcript:

Announcer (00:03):

From script to screen, every film is brought to life by visionary creatives and executives, all sharing one mission to captivate the audience. Hosted by award-winning movie strategist Kevin Goetz, our podcast, Don't Kill the Messenger, offers a filmmaking masterclass through intimate conversations with Hollywood's most influential voices. And now, your host, Kevin Goetz.

Kevin Goetz (00:29):

This is a business built on vision and the conviction to bring that vision to life in a way that truly knocks it out of the park. My guest today has a way of doing that. He is a true showman. A project came to him a few years back. It was risky, it was unconventional, easy to dismiss. The genre had struggled and the concept didn't scream commercial, but he saw something else, not just the story but the execution. The studio wasn't convinced, so he pushed forward and created a proof of concept real. When it played, everything changed. That man is Mark Canton. The film was 300, which went on to generate over $450 million worldwide and redefin a genre. A producer and former president of Warner Brothers Worldwide Production as well as former chairman of Columbia Tri-Star Pictures. Mark has been behind films like The Matrix Trilogy, The Age of Innocence, My Best Friend's Wedding, Men in Black, Air Force One, and Immortals.

(01:37):

Mark, it is so good to have my friend here to kibitz with, to uncover some things I don't know about you, which is gonna be hard. Thanks for joining me.

Mark Canton (01:47):

Kevin, it's a pleasure. You are one of the rare people who I met in this town that I can honestly say I've never felt anything other than lean in friendship, no drama, no agenda, nothing but respect and affection for each other. And I feel that that's real and we've worked together quite a bit over the years. 

Kevin Goetz (02:14):

Almost 40 years.

Mark Canton (02:15):

Yeah. And have always been to me in the world of motion picture research and the process of helping us to have the best version of a movie I am delighted to be here.

Kevin Goetz (02:29):

So I wanna start with Queens, because I'm a Brooklyn boy and I do wanna go back to your roots with Shirley and Arthur.

Mark Canton (02:37):

Arthur.

Kevin Goetz (02:38):

Mom and Dad. Both in the business?

Mark Canton (02:39):

No, my father talk about a great love story, a New York love story. First of all, I was born in Manhattan. We moved to Queens and I grew up in Queens. And ironically, my greatest success as a television executive producer now after 12 years is power and the power universe, which I created from an idea I had with 50 Cent and, and wonderful showrunner, writer Courtney Kemp. But that's all about Queens really in the most authentic way. But my parents who were just this incredibly beautiful deep couple had one moment of let's get married. And the next day my father left for officer cadet school, Air Force, Roswell, New Mexico, and went off to fly as the second lieutenant. 69 missions, they were shot down over France. He became one of the two survivors, broke every bone in his body, saved by a German surgeon who refused to turn him over to the Nazis.

(03:54):

He let an escape. He was MIA and POW for two years. In those days, there were no cell phones. The expectation you was, you would get a ring at your door or knock that your man was gone. My father was a very athletic, very determined human and he survived it all and got back. 

Kevin Goetz (04:17):

They tell your mother he was missing in Action?

Mark Canton (04:18):

They did. Yes. He was MIA. His mother gave up on him as a matter of fact. And then one day-

Kevin Goetz (04:23):

Oh my God.

Mark Canton (04:24):

Yeah, he came back. And he came back- 

Kevin Goetz (04:26):

Wait a minute. Incredible story. Why haven't you made this story?

Mark Canton (04:28):

Well, this is what my brother and I are working on. My father came home in the hospital in 1946, 47, got out and my mother's brother, her late brother, Sanford, had formed a motion picture distribution organization in New York City and my father and he connected and in 1949 they made a short subject on Van Gogh and my dad won the Oscar. So this is what started the entire lineage.

Kevin Goetz (05:01):

Well, you came out of the womb. I'm just going to say this. With poetry, man.

Mark Canton (05:05):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (05:06):

I was just gonna say, you were a movie man out of the gate. Like there are many guests I have sitting on the couch- Right. ... who are, they learned how to grow into it. You and I very similar share this. I wanted to do nothing else.

Mark Canton (05:20):

Right. I've tried for all these years had to grow out of it.

Kevin Goetz (05:23):

But you don't mean that.

Mark Canton (05:24):

I don't really mean that at all. I know

Kevin Goetz (05:25):

You all. But- Is Neil as committed as you are?

Mark Canton (05:27):

Yes. And what I was gonna say to you is that my mother was a poet and a published poet and her most extraordinary book that she won awards for was called City Kids Don't Chew Tall Grass. And it was about living in New York City and waiting, is he gonna make it very emotional, very powerful, but they were always into the arts. So what happened was Father won the Oscar and in the 1950s, if you can visualize as we all can, the Mad Men series, that was my father. He opened up a marketing and public relations firm on 424 Madison Avenue above the chock full of nuts. My father first became through a lot of fantastic visual motion picture-like connections, which I'll tell you at least one, became a vice president at MGM, but before he became vice president, his job was to do road shows and travel around with Leo The Lion.

(06:32):

Oh boy. Because remember, there was no AI and there was nothing other than doing these things. 

Kevin Goetz (06:40):

This is when you worked at MGM.

Mark Canton (06:40):

Right. So he would take Leo the Lion around, he worked his way up. Eventually he became a very significant executive vice president in Columbia Pictures, which was on Fifth Avenue. I started acting at a really young age. By sixth grade and I had wonderful pictures, I played Freddie Einsworth Hill and my Fair Lady. And then I played Chulalongkorn in The King and I. So I was that guy and I was going to be an actor. I had golfing walk down the street before. That was me, man. <laugh> I was seducing all those little girls. I was a little guy. It was a beautiful thing. But even then, the drama society in sixth grade, I knew I wanted to come to Hollywood. And my father would- Hollywood, not Broadway. Not Hollywood. And I don't really have regrets, but if I had one, it would be that I was a really good actor and no less than Dustin Hoffman told me so.

(07:38):

By the time we worked together in 1973 on Papillon, Dustin and I spent a lot of time together and McQueen and he said, "You'd be a wonderful actor." And I kind of sometimes regret that I didn't pursue that side. My other regret is that I have never directed something because often I find myself directing the director anyway.

Kevin Goetz (08:02):

Now I wanna go back to something here. So you see a movie that defines I wanna be in the movies. Is there a particular seminal picture as a young Mark that you're like, "I wanna do that. " Something had to inform you.

Mark Canton (08:17):

My father built this incredible creative advertising marketing firm with the late great Bill Blowitz who got hit by a cab and killed as they were coming home from dinner in New York City story onto itself. My father, starting in the 1960s, represented more legendary actors, producers, directors, Hitchcock, Kazan, David Lean, Sam Spiegel, Doris Day, Leslie Caron, Dr. King. He did all the personal publicity, but he also put together the March on Washington with Dr. King, Dr. Abernathy, Sidney Poitier was his client, as was Harry Belafonte. What parents? What parents? And my mother, they were very bonded.

Kevin Goetz (09:02):

Who were you closer to?

Mark Canton (09:04):

You know, I felt like I won the lottery. There was a piece of both of them. 

Kevin Goetz (09:09):

Did you like your childhood?

Mark Canton (09:09):

I loved my childhood. And my brother, who was a year older, we were just like these badass kids who shared a room in the house and we both were into sports and girls and we were into trouble. And what happened is teenagers skipping around a bit, my brother ... First he wanted to go to West Point. Then he wanted to be in politics. So we went to American University in, in DC. I decided I was gonna run something in Hollywood, so I went to UCLA. That was my ticket to get to California. But I made really crazy decisions in the expression, "Youth will be served." I was definitely served because- 

Kevin Goetz (09:51):

But wait a minute. What the movie you said that’s easy.

Mark Canton (09:54):

Easy. Number one, Lawrence of Arabia. Because my father represented David Lean and Sam Spiegel. So my father went and I still have all the stuff from the location when he would come home.

Kevin Goetz (10:04):

Was that in Morocco?

Mark Canton (10:05):

In Morocco. Phil and my father was crazy handsome guy and they would fly. In those days when you'd fly places like that, he would always say, "Yeah, I was in first class and they served monkey brains and stuff on these flights." Oh, Christ. Oh, they did, man. They was like, "Oh, Pan Am."

Kevin Goetz (10:21):

Did he ever bring you?

Mark Canton (10:22):

Never brought me there. But he brought the dust back, you know, the- Sure. ... the fairy does. You go to, you go to UCLA. Right. You go to UCLA. Right. 

Kevin Goetz (10:30):

You graduated as-

Mark Canton (10:31):

Magna cum laude in history.

Kevin Goetz (10:33):

Why'd you choose history?

Mark Canton (10:34):

Well, there were only two things I was interested in, filmmaking and history. And I was at UCLA in the subversive days of filmmaking. Everyone wanted to, like, overthrow everything. Still do, especially now, but I was more academic. I studied history and mythology, which then came back around with 300 and immortals. But I knew by that time that I wanted to have power in Hollywood. I wanted to run a company and have whatever vision I had, I felt I wanted to be in a position to actualize.

Kevin Goetz (11:16):

So you knew that early on.

Mark Canton (11:17):

I knew that. 

Kevin Goetz (11:18):

It's so interesting.

Mark Canton (11:18):

Here's how early on I knew it. By the way, I was at UCLA when it was Kent States and I would get A's in everything because I would go on strike with the right professors. <laugh>

Kevin Goetz (11:29):

Always work in the angle.

Mark Canton (11:31):

I always worked at Man. It was a great thing.

Kevin Goetz (11:32):

You know what I like to say and we've shared this as well. I always say, like, I'm a shark always looking for my next meal.

Mark Canton (11:38):

Always

Kevin Goetz (11:38):

Looking for- But sharks are wonderful creatures. Yes. <laugh> People think, "Oh, you're shark." No. Why did you call yourself that? No, there's a negative connotation. It's the best of the-

Mark Canton (11:47):

I don't have the best- ... Hierarchy, isn't it? You know, I try to come from a, as you know me, a very positive place of everything as possible. Yes. But by the time I was-

Kevin Goetz (11:55):

Curious.

Mark Canton (11:56):

Curious. So my father opened some doors for me, but he always believed then you have to take it from there. So my online training was that at UCLA in the summers I would work in the mail room at Warner Brothers. So I drove a big bike like Peewee's bike around and I delivered the mail.

Kevin Goetz (12:17):

Was Warner Brothers the lot that it is today?

Mark Canton (12:18):

Yes.

Kevin Goetz (12:20):

So you're riding around a studio lot where you would one day be head of worldwide production.

Mark Canton (12:24):

Yeah, yeah. But my brother by that time, his best friend was a gentleman who became a legendary filmmaker, Frank Marshall, who you know well. So they were best friends and they lived on Outpost Drive in the house of Peter Bogdanovich and Polly Platt. And Peter Brogdonfrich at the time was the great American young director because Peter was making Paper Moon and The Last Picture Show. And Peter was becoming legend and Ply was sort of the brains behind the outfit and Polly was the writer and it was a wonderful, crazy time. So I would go over the hill, then I would come back and I lived right down the hill from them off of outpost in Hollywood and I would deliver the mail of Peter and Sydney Pollock and all the legends. They all had their offices there, but all of these young filmmakers, Francis, everyone was emerging and I would deliver their mail and I would always take an extra second to smell the circus.

Kevin Goetz (13:26):

Ooh, smell the circus. I love that term.

Mark Canton (13:28):

Yeah. Well, you know what it is and you do know what it is, Kevin. It's when you're a kid and you go to the Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey, and you smell the circus and the cotton candy and the popcorn, it was heavenly. For me, the first time I ever walked into a movie studio and it stayed that way forever, when I get to a sound stage, it's smelling the circus.

Kevin Goetz (13:53):

And I believe him, listeners, because I've been around Mark. I could have opened with so many comments about you. I chose to open up with this notion of showman because like the best of them. Right. I think of Mike Todd. I think of Cecil B. DeMille had that sense of theatricality and I think you have it in spades. If I were casting the quintessential studio executive, it would be like Bob Evans. But I also have always told you this, it would be Mark Canton.

Mark Canton (14:27):

Thank you.

Kevin Goetz (14:28):

At a certain point, as a producer, just what you imagine Hollywood to be, it would have been Joel Silver. Right. As a director, it would have been Steven Spielberg. And you, my friend, have this presence when you walk in a room of owning the room.

Mark Canton (14:43):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (14:44):

Well, you don't get that from not smelling the circus.

Mark Canton (14:46):

You gotta smell the circus. And let me tell you something. Early on, I knew it was a blessing, a gift. I always understood that this was better than most. I never was callous about it. I never was cynical about it and I ain't now.

Kevin Goetz (15:07):

I love that, by the way, because you don't take it for granted because you live in gratitude.

Mark Canton (15:11):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (15:11):

I want to ask you something about your first big job. Right. Like what did you get that you said, "Oh, I'm on my way."

Mark Canton (15:16):

My father introduced me to Franklin Schaffner who had made Patton and won the Oscar and was one tough, serious, bar smoking guy.

Kevin Goetz (15:29):

He's a John Ford.

Mark Canton (15:30):

He's a John Ford. He was amazing and I went to meet him and I wanted to be his assistant on this film called Papillon, which by the way, as a producer now it gave me a lot of skills because I learned a lot from Ted Richmond and all these guys who didn't know how to get their financing together. Sure. But right then I realized this is crazy business, man, because I thought, "Hey, it's pretty easy. You put on a suit, you look good, you're with a great girl. It's all good." Part of it. <laugh> Part of it. Yeah. How long-

Kevin Goetz (16:01):

Playing the game.

Mark Canton (16:02):

Playing the game and inventing the game. But when I met Frank, I don't remember if I still had an earring, had long hair, I had my jufro going on and all I know is he looked at me, I looked at him and I said, "Mr. Schaffner, I am the right person at the right time and I would like to come to Jamaica and learn everything I can from you. You're elite, you're great. I'll cut my hair. I'll do anything you want, " which he actually smiled about that. So there we were, I'm gonna answer your ca- question, I have a few places I can answer specifically in Jamaica in Falmouth, hot as hell, and there I am with the biggest movie star in the world, Steve McQueen. And now he's in this romance with Ali MacGraw and she's there walking around the set in a little bikini with a gold chain around it.

(16:51):

And I go like, "This is like so great." And I'm living with Ed Myerson, who was the son of the head of Lowe's Corporation.

Kevin Goetz (17:01):

Oh, this reminds me of the story with Bob Evans.

Mark Canton (17:05):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (17:06):

'Cause they were having an affair.

Mark Canton (17:07):

That was so-

Kevin Goetz (17:08):

Right?

Mark Canton (17:09):

Crazy dude.

Kevin Goetz (17:10):

Was that on that picture, huh?

Mark Canton (17:10):

Yes. And Steve was the biggest star in the world, and Steve's assistant's name was Jimmy Jimenez. And Steve only wore Stone Dye jeans, which in those days, no one know what they were, but he had like 1100 pairs. And Steve would come out because he was the real deal, okay? The Brad Pitts and everyone else, they followed suit, but they were on Steve McQueen. Steve McQueen every morning would be working out his karate and that kickbag and all. I lived in between the house of Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoffman and they were as different as could be and each as great as could be. Did they get along? Took a lot, but I just wanted to learn a lot. So what I would do is I would watch Steve's process and then I would watch Dustin's process. What was Dustin's process? The character was aging, the makeup on his hands, he would do himself, sit there for like hours like doing the makeup, doing ... While Steve was just kicking the shit out of the thing and hanging out with Ali, drinking beer and I realized I love this.

(18:15):

So the big moment was it's like a Friday. Franklin Schaffner has now not talked to me for months because I'm not at the level until since I had met him. Now it's the end of a day Friday and he just goes like he's smoking a big fucking cigar and he goes like this. "Come over, man. "I go over and he just looks me right in the eyes and he's blowing the smoke in my eyes and he goes," So what do you think? "And I go on what feels like a 20 minute rant, like giving my opinion about everything like you do. And I'm, he's looking at me right in the face, he blows the smoke out and he says," What? "Because clearly he was already onto the next thing and I realized right there, you're either gonna projectile vomit, you're gonna faint or you're gonna remember that moment and use that moment for all the things that you wanna build in your own career.

Kevin Goetz (19:11):

Mm-hmm. Well, listen, when we come back, we're gonna talk to Mark about his big break and the movies that followed and what he's doing now. We'll be back in a moment. Listeners, the Motion Picture and Television Fund is a nonprofit charitable organization that supports working and retired members of the entertainment community. This wonderfully run organization offers assistance for living and aging with dignity and purpose in the areas of health and social services, including temporary financial assistance, case management, and residential living, and has been a crucial lifeline to thousands during and beyond critical times that our industry continues to experience. To learn more, visit mptf.com. Please join me in helping others in our industry during times of need. There are so many ways to offer support and get involved. Thank you. We're back with my dear friend, Mark Canton. Mark, you get to become the head of Warner Brothers.

(20:25):

Very quickly, what is that trajectory like to get you to that place?

Mark Canton (20:29):

I went from working on, as I said, Papillon getting tremendous practical experience, working on the taking of Pelham 123 in the subways of New York with Joe Sargent and Robert Shaw. Incredible. And ending up in Hollywood, one more of those stories that make us who we are. I go in to United Artists for a meeting. I had one fancy sport jacket from Bonwit Teller. I go, I put it on, I go in to see Dan Rissner, who is the head of production for United Artists at the time. I sit down with him. I'm thinking this is all exactly what has to be in my career. He says to me, before I can say a word," Your father is a fantastic man. I'm sure you're a great guy. The long and short of it is I don't have anything for you. "That's probably no words to say because other than to get up and- General interview.

(21:30):

By the way, that came full cycle many years later when older Danton Rissner needed studio head Mark Canton for his career. However, Long before that ever crossed my mind, I went to work for Dick Shepherd and Ray Wagner at MGM, where I got a job where Sherry Lansing was there. She was on the next floor and my big break was that I worked for Mike Medavoy at Orion. Mike Medavoy hired me, I knew Eric Pleskow, his boss and Arthur Krim and Bob Benjamin because Eric Pleskow was the next door neighbor to my parents who now had a house- Oh gosh. ... in West Hampton. This was UA before Orion. One of the things that Arthur Krim always said was the most important assets we have in this business are yourself and your partner when you put your coat and hat on and you go home, you take the studio with you, your built-in asset, which I always thought was quite simple and brilliant. So Mike Medavoy hired me, paid me $117.80 a week, which I didn't really care.

(22:40):

I was into earn a little, learn a lot and we went to work at UA and we were making some really interesting good movies.

Kevin Goetz (22:50):

Come on, give me a few.

Mark Canton (22:51):

Well, I mean- Rocky. Rocky was the moment we were all in that screening. We stood up on the chairs. Rocky was the highlight of that time. We were on the lot, still smelled like the circus. And I met during the course of this, Barbara Streisand wanted to do a remake of the women and that was at MGM. So I went from UA to MGM by that point and I, Dick Shepherd was a very stern guy. Ray Wagner, I liked a great deal. So Barbara came in for meetings on the women and she took a liking to me. She liked my notes. She liked what I had to say. She liked my approach.

Kevin Goetz (23:31):

She liked your New Yorkness.

Mark Canton (23:33):

Right. And she introduced me to John Peters and I quickly became tight with John and we-

Kevin Goetz (23:42):

Was he still there?

Mark Canton (23:44):

He was still here now. Now we're starting to produce movies and he was gonna do this movie with Robby Benson actually and a monkey. I can't remember the name, but-

Kevin Goetz (23:51):

What was he like then, John?

Mark Canton (23:53):

He was very, very not polished, but he was very wildly handsome and ambitious, you know?

Kevin Goetz (24:00):

Talented?

Mark Canton (24:01):

Talented. He was talented.

Kevin Goetz (24:03):

Instincts.

Mark Canton (24:04):

To this day.

Kevin Goetz (24:05):

Got it.

Mark Canton (24:05):

Big ones.That's how we ended up with Barbara. It's a pretty good instinct. So there came a time in this process where I would start going out to Ramirez Canyon in Malibu under the tunnel where Barbara had her two houses. She, eventually seven houses, her deco house, her cottage, every house that you could ever want was on that property and the best of the best and her other house and Carol would drive. There was so much Tiffany. Everything was perfect and of course made me feel very ambitious because-

Kevin Goetz (24:40):

I want that too.

Mark Canton (24:41):

We all want that. And we'd go out and there was the younger versions always on Saturdays, these parties of David Geffen and Barry Diller and Sandy Gallin and Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger, just all the people- 

Kevin Goetz (25:00):

And I'm gonna be part of that.

Mark Canton (25:01):

I was already a part of it, but I certainly wasn't gonna get booted out. You know what I mean? So then Barbara and John decided they needed me in their company. So what they did was I went to the ranch and Barbara made me with her people a great meal. I'll never forget it with like hot peach pie and whatever. She's Barbara Streisand, man. And they offered me like $100,000, which was a lot of money to run Barbara to join forces. She was working with Ryan O'Neill on the main event. That's when this period of time was. And I now had made the turn into going from being in the office to being more on the sets, which I always like going back to Papillon and Barbara and John were really unbelievably complimentary and respectful.

Kevin Goetz (25:54):

And how was that relationship for a long time it lasted, right?

Mark Canton (25:57):

Still- It lasted a long time. 

Kevin Goetz (25:58):

Are you not still friends with them?

Mark Canton (25:59):

I am.

Kevin Goetz (26:00):

But that's who you are.

Mark Canton (26:01):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (26:01):

Your persona, like, it's very rare that you don't continue relationships-

Mark Canton (26:06):

Right. ... 

Kevin Goetz (26:06):

For years and years.

Mark Canton (26:07):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (26:07):

You have very deep relationships.

Mark Canton (26:08):

That's driven my entire professional life is that I have active friendships and relationships that are without agenda again.

Kevin Goetz (26:18):

How do you talk to a Barbara? Uh- How do you talk to her where she ... Because I imagine someone of her stature is just surrounded by sycophants. Right. And she needs people who are going to be straight with her.

Mark Canton (26:31):

I was always straight with her and I always tried to tell her as succinctly as possible.

Kevin Goetz (26:37):

Did you ever get into it?

Mark Canton (26:38):

The truth. Got into it sometimes, but-

Kevin Goetz (26:41):

Healthy civic discourse. 

Mark Canton (26:42):

Healthy and also I learned, because remember, there were no cell phones in those days. So I learned very early in my career how to get off the phone fast because she might still be talking when I hung up. She's Barbara.

Kevin Goetz (26:56):

Torturing the logic of whatever it is.

Mark Canton (26:58):

Whatever it is, genius. So I had a really great period of time with meeting all of this extraordinary talent from all walks of life.

Kevin Goetz (27:13):

And it was the Creme de la Creme at that time.

Mark Canton (27:16):

And all the politicians. Oh, everyone. Everybody because Barbara was so involved with politics. And however it happened along the way, I had a connection with ... I mean, I know how it happened, but you know, I was a dog with a bone. So there was young Mike Ovitz, young Ron Meyer. It was all ... I can't give you the years for everything, but all I know is- I'm

Kevin Goetz (27:40):

I’m getting the whole thing.

Mark Canton (27:40):

It all got together to the point- 

Kevin Goetz (27:44):

You all came up together.

Mark Canton (27:44):

... where we came up together and now I wanted to get serious. So what happened was there was a job at Warner Brothers and this was now 1979. Well, first of all, Barbara came to my 30th birthday party as a surprise and sang happy birthday. So just try to imagine I turned 30 and there's Barbara Strasan singing Happy Birthday. And I'm going like-

Kevin Goetz (28:11):

Mark. ...

Mark Canton (28:11):

To myself, this is like- 

Kevin Goetz (28:13):

You're not gonna believe this. Yeah. This isn't honest to God. Yeah. I spent my 30th birthday with Barbara Streisand. <laugh> But not in the same way. I was working on a movie that she was directing. I'm working as an actor doing voice work for her and I was gona meet my legend. Right. And she could not have been more spectacular.

Mark Canton (28:31):

She is spectacular.

Kevin Goetz (28:34):

That's so serendipitous because we both had, on this program, two- Right. ... really crazy. Different Parts of the story, but the same kind of thing.

Mark Canton (28:41):

Crazy. So what happened was- Oh, Lord. I turned 30 and John Peters said, "You should just run the whole town, man. Like you're unstoppable." And Mike Ovitz had amassed a huge amount of power fast.

Kevin Goetz (28:56):

People don't remember.

Mark Canton (28:57):

They don't remember.

Kevin Goetz (28:58):

I'm gonna actually ask Mike to come on the show.

Mark Canton (28:59):

He certainly never stopped amassing a fortune either. He's so brilliant. So there was a job opening with Warner Brothers. And remember in those-

Kevin Goetz (29:07):

EVP Job.

Mark Canton (29:07):

Right. Remember those days titles didn't matter, right? Remember the heads of production, like Mike Medavoy were called EVP. Now you wouldn't go in the office if you're not called a chairman. Right.

Kevin Goetz (29:19):

Right? And Bo and Terry were there, correct?

Mark Canton (29:21):

Here's what happened. So there was a job and by then Jake Bloom was in my life as a dear friend and as a mentor and as my attorney, I met Jake Bloom and Skip Brittenham, the two legends who both passed away two years ago at the same day I met them and I ended up going with Jake. I like to laugh sometimes that if I had gone with Skip, I'd be a lot wealthier, but with Jake, I had such a great times. So I hear Craig Baumgarten is getting the job from Jake Bloom and it's a done deal. And I go, "This can't be a done deal." I call Mike Ovitz. I say, "You gotta get me in to get this job, man." So he calls up Ted Ashley, Who was still there and John Calley and young Terry Semel. And the next thing I know, I spend the night with Hal Ashby, who I had known.

Kevin Goetz (30:11):

One of the great directors of the time.

Mark Canton (30:12):

For all the time. I spent the night in Malibu with Hal Ashby and these beautiful women. And we're like up the whole night. I'm so confident. I go, I get dressed, I go in, I walk into the old Jack Warner office.

Kevin Goetz (30:29):

Wait, they called you and told you you did get it?

Mark Canton (30:31):

They, no, they called me to interview me.

Kevin Goetz (30:32):

Oh, oh, okay.

Mark Canton (30:33):

After I had an all nighter with Hal. 

Kevin Goetz (30:35):

So Craig had already told he was getting the job.

Mark Canton (30:36):

He was told he was getting. 

Kevin Goetz (30:38):

Oh, he must hate your guts.

Mark Canton (30:40):

I think it, you know, I don't think he would admit it. You know, it was that-

Kevin Goetz (30:44):

He's the best, Craig.

Mark Canton (30:44):

Right. Yeah. So this is what happened. I go in, all these guys come out of one door or another, Ted Ashley, Terry Semel, John Kelly, and Mark Rosenberg, who was then the head of production, who was married at the time to Paula Weinstein. And the first thing I say, it's just so lame, man. I sit down, no fucking idea of what the head of production of Warner Brothers could ... And I say, Warner Brothers is like the Yankees, and I am the biggest Yankee fan in the world and they don't lose and I don't lose. This is what I say.

Kevin Goetz (31:25):

That's some hubris.

Mark Canton (31:27):

Right. They look at me like, "Who the fuck is this guy?"

Kevin Goetz (31:31):

Yeah. Oh, I'd want a piece of that.

Mark Canton (31:32):

Thank you. We get into this conversation and people don't understand what it was like to be the most powerful person in this industry for 10 years. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (31:42):

Mike Ovitz.

Mark Canton (31:42):

Mike Ovitz. The next day he calls me up, he goes, "You got the job. They loved you. " I go, "Great. I got the job." I say goodbye to John Peter.

Kevin Goetz (31:51):

Did he negotiate for you?

Mark Canton (31:52):

Peter? Of course. Or did Jake Bloom? No, he negotiated with Jake. Years later, they had a big fight with each other in front of me. But that, you know, I have a, like you, all the stories because we're present in our own demise. Remember this. So I get the job at the place that I once delivered mail. Very emotional family moment from my parents who now lived in LA as well. And it was, I think, around then my brother produced the Back to the Future movies. So now my parents, this Jewish family from a guy that survived being shot down, we got birth and my brother's making Back to the Future and I'm now running Warner Brothers. Jesus. So it's pretty good.

Kevin Goetz (32:34):

What a ... Hold on. I gotta just take a second to process that.

Mark Canton (32:37):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:37):

That's beautiful.

Mark Canton (32:38):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:38):

You walk on the Warner Brothers Lot. Were you in Jack's office?

Mark Canton (32:41):

No, I was down the hall, but I had a great office.

Kevin Goetz (32:45):

I only say that because I asked Anne Sarnoff who was a guest a litle bit ago. I said, "Anne, what was it like walking onto that lot for the first time?"

Mark Canton (32:53):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (32:53):

And everybody has the same reaction. I'm gonna ask that question.

Mark Canton (32:56):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (32:57):

Magic.

Mark Canton (32:57):

Magic.

Kevin Goetz (32:58):

You know?

Mark Canton (32:59):

And then remember, Steve Ross was there and this guy couldn't take good enough care of his executives. We had the planes, we had the gifts. When Wendy and I went and got married

Kevin Goetz (33:10):

Wendy Finerman.

Mark Canton (33:11):

Wendy Finerman and I went and got married in 1985. He sent us around the world and everywhere we went, there were bathrobes with our initials on the Warner's plane in Europe.

Kevin Goetz (33:23):

Those were the days.

Mark Canton (33:26):

I was the last-

Kevin Goetz (33:26):

Now you gotta show them your expense account and say, "I need permission. I went over the thousand dollars for the dinner." <laugh>

Mark Canton (33:34):

And you're not gonna get the permission. <laugh> So I went to Warner Brothers and three months later in 1980 in walks this Irish guy, Bob Daly, with his big buckle shoes and Terry Semel's there and I'm doing good stuff because right away for $5,000 at the old El Padre room at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel, I met with John Patak and young John Hughes and for $5,000 I optioned these articles called Vacation, Christmas Vacation and all the vacations-

Kevin Goetz (34:09):

You identified John Hughes, you got him.

Mark Canton (34:11):

Yeah. He had his paramount relationship with Ned Tannen and he had his relationship with me, but we did five movies and then I found a director, Harold Ramis, because remember, this went back to John Peterson. When we were together, we were on the Warner lot. So John thought I should run and we made Caddyshack. That was my ticket because it was a 200 page script that Harold Ramos and Doug Kenny wrote after Animal House and John did not know what he was doing and he gave me the fucking script and he goes, "Hey, genius, go fix this fucking script because it's 200 pages and Orion and Mike made it. They're not gona make it. " So I went with Harold Ramis, we cut the script down to 120 pages. We made Caddyshack. I cast with them Chevy and Billy and all the guys and-

Kevin Goetz (34:59):

Is it tough to cast?

Mark Canton (35:01):

It was easy to cast because we all knew each other from Second City or from Saturday Night Live. I was also always on the set of Saturday Night Live.

Kevin Goetz (35:09):

So you knew where to hang.

Mark Canton (35:11):

Yeah, man.

Kevin Goetz (35:12):

You knew that you had to get out there.

Mark Canton (35:14):

I was at the first Saturday Night Live where they were breaking big pens in the back and snort and blow in the back before the show started, man.

Kevin Goetz (35:21):

That was, you know what they say? The room where it happens, the room where it happens, you know.

Mark Canton (35:24):

Yeah, I was always in the right room. I was in the right room so often I'm at the point where I don't really care about it anymore, but I'm still in the right room.

Kevin Goetz (35:32):

Oh, great.

Mark Canton (35:33):

And an example would be yesterday. Yesterday where Peter Guber, who I now- 

Kevin Goetz (35:38):

Oh, now let's talk about that because you and Peter have now formed back together.

Mark Canton (35:42):

We've formed that we're now partners. Peter had Mandalay. I had Canton Entertainment and Atmosphere after years of this friendship and personal friendship with our wives, with our kids, Peter and I formed this new version, Mandalay 2.0 where we are co-managing directors and partners of all the movies and stuff and we're, what we're gona build, we're working on. But one of the ways we work on it is an example of still being in the right room. So Peter Guber now owns the Dodgers. He's one of the three owners. The Golden State Warriors, he and his partner, Joe, the LA Football Club and the stadium, the Valkery, which is the Golden State Women's team in the WNBA, they build the Chase Center and then he owns the most successful team in gaming's competitive sports called Team Liquid.

(36:39):

So yesterday, Peter and I talk about being in the right room. He goes, "You wanna have lunch?" They go, "Great, let's go. " And he goes, "You know what? The Dodgers are playing, they never play a day game, but they have to travel tonight. It's called like whatever kind of game. We hop in the car, he drives, we're in Hancock Park. 18 minutes later, we're at Dodger Stadium. He owns the team, drives in as always. The boss is here, the boss parks, you would virtually think he parked on first base." <laugh> We go, we're sitting in the owner's seat, we are hot- 

Kevin Goetz (37:12):

Where's the owner seat?

Mark Canton (37:13):

The owner's seats are right next to the Dodger dugout. The Dodger manager, Dave Roberts, goes like this to Peter. Peter and I sit for three innings. We watch Ohtani hit twice. We get back in the car. The way back we solve the movies we want to make 17 minutes, we're back in the office. So I guess I'm still in the right place.

Kevin Goetz (37:30):

I gotta tell you, I'm three seats behind home plate.

Mark Canton (37:33):

It’s great.

Kevin Goetz (37:34):

I was there the other day when the Mets lost. Right. But all you can eat buffet. Sure. <laugh> Yeah. Yeah. Put a Jew with a buffet. Yeah. I mean, you know. Yeah. It's a, it's a wonderful thing. The stadium club,

Mark Canton (37:45):

The Dugout Club.

Kevin Goetz (37:46):

And so I'm thinking, how could anyone have better seats than this, but-

Mark Canton (37:50):

We do. Now, just by being with Peter, he's saying to me, "What should I do about this sports thing and stuff?" So I'm having the greatest time- Jesus. ... because I love sports. By the way, going back to Warner Brothers, not only did I succeed at Warner Brothers in the 1980s, but they had at that time, I wanna say it was the 70th anniversary, you might've been there, I don't know, and Steve Roth threw this humongous party on the lot for everyone in the history of the world who's ever been in Hollywood, but only two people, your friend Rob Friedman, who was then the head of marketing and your friend Mark Canton, who was the head of Worldwide Motion Picture production, were lifted up in a crane and we signed the water tower at Warner Brothers. So one day when David Ellison and everyone now takes over, they're gonna have to either erase our name or do whatever when they- Is

Kevin Goetz (38:42):

That a lot of people have signed that over the years?

Mark Canton (38:44):

Not a lot of people. I had this idea, I said, "Robbie, let's sign the water tower, man. We're not gonna be here forever." Jesus. It was beautiful. So-

Kevin Goetz (38:52):

It's genius. Let me ask you this.

Mark Canton (38:53):

Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (38:54):

When did you get the call to come to Columbia?

Mark Canton (38:57):

Ah, we had this magnificent run at Warner Brothers, deep friendships. I brought in what I believe to be one of the things I'm most proud of. The thing I am most proud of in the business. Before it was in vogue and fashion, the right thing to do or any other version, I had the most incredible women work with me and for me ever when I was at Warner's. Remember, I had the greatest- 

Kevin Goetz (39:27):

like Lucy Fisher?

Mark Canton (39:27):

Lucy Fisher, Allyn Stewart, incredible team. My whole theory was you get the best people, you help them to be the best version of themselves and, and you win. That's it.

Kevin Goetz (39:41):

Genius.

Mark Canton (39:41):

Simple. At Warner Brothers, it was the greatest company ever, right? You know, you and I both know it takes ... Steven Spielberg don't make a movie alone. Marty don't make a movie alone. You gotta have all the players in all the right positions. Sure,

Kevin Goetz (39:57):

They'd be the first to say it.

Mark Canton (39:57):

But as executives, we have both witnessed companies that destroy themselves from within because there's so much competition. The me, me, me, everyone with their own agendas, everyone wants to be you, like, whatever. But at Warner Brothers, Bob and Terry weren't having that. So our Tuesday lunches were legend because we would sit and have lunch and throw out the wildest fucking ideas in the world. Like Bob Daly says to me, "I really like that guy Kirk Russell to be- <laugh>

Kevin Goetz (40:27):

Kirk Russell.

Mark Canton (40:28):

To do lethal weapon, which I bought in my bathroom."

Kevin Goetz (40:32):

That I re- remember you telling me.

Mark Canton (40:34):

I did. I bought it in the bathroom because there was a phone in the bathroom. I went in the bathroom. I didn't want anyone to hear me and I worked out the deal to get the script for Lethal Weapon and I put Dick on it and Joel was like begging me and we hired Mel. Well, Mel had done Mad Max at Warner's. So when I got there, that was just happening and we became very close friends and-

Kevin Goetz (40:59):

He's a great guy, man.

Mark Canton (41:00):

Great guy, man.

Kevin Goetz (41:01):

That put him on the map though, as a giant international star.

Mark Canton (41:04):

So we did Lethal Weapon, but we c- in other words, those Tuesday meetings, we would cast it. So I go, no, Mel Gibson. Oh, Mel Gibson. And then Danny Glover, because remember in those days, everybody wasn't always paired, but I've succeeded often by putting two disparate spirits together.

Kevin Goetz (41:24):

Fabulous.

Mark Canton (41:25):

That's, this is what I'm into. You

Kevin Goetz (41:26):

You did it on Men in Black.

Mark Canton (41:28):

I did it with bad boys and Men in Black. Anyway, I get the call to go to Columbia. I've had this unbelievable run at Warner Brothers. Warner's is still my heart to this day. Why did I go? I went because- Who called you? Peter Guber and John Peters called me and they seduced me. They threw everything at me and I didn't want to leave, but Terry and Bob I was number three and Barry Meyer was the head of business who eventually became the guy. This is all before Alan Horn. By this time, I was fairly savvy in the business of the business. I wanted to guarantee that if Bob or Terry left, I would get that opportunity.

Kevin Goetz (42:05):

They wouldn't give it to you.

Mark Canton (42:06):

Right. They wouldn't give it to me and I knew my only way out of my contract was to really have Terry feel uncomfortable. We started to knock heads because Bob didn't want to let go of me at all. And I got out without going into all the detail with the help of Jake-

Kevin Goetz (42:27):

With the help of Mike Ovitz.

Mark Canton (42:28):

Right. And made a great deal to become the chairman of Columbia Pictures, which then eventually quickly I formed a Columbia Tri-Star Motion Picture companies. They were two separate companies and I became the chairman of both.

Kevin Goetz (42:45):

Didn't you revitalize the Tri-Star label?

Mark Canton (42:47):

First thing I did. And the Columbia label. We changed the whole thing. We made it look like Annette Benning now. The- <laugh> But the, with the lady with the, with the torch. The torch. <laugh> And David Putnam gave me, which I still have, of course, his torch, because he had one made and one said side said David Putnam, and then he had my plaque put on the other side. I was thrilled. I mean, here I am, this kid from Queens and I'm the chairman of Columbia Pictures where my father worked and I joined there and in short order, John was thrown out, which was very heavy for me because John was- A

Kevin Goetz (43:32):

Dear friend. ...

Mark Canton (43:32):

A dear friend, but also he was my fighter to get me there in the first place. That's the truth. He insisted because when I first was gona go there, Frank Price was still at Columbia and Mike Medavoy was at Tristar and they were like shot. Mark Canton is gonna take over for like the ... And so what Peter tried to do was to convince me at the last minute that I should spend a year at TriStar. Mike would leave, I would spend the year Tristar and then Frank was gonna leave because he had a year to go on his contract and I refused because I go, "I'm not leaving Warner Brothers to run a company called Tristar." It was like when Laura Mara came to Warner Brothers, you gotta know if it's a Chevy or Cadillac. I'm not- And they, they do it.

Kevin Goetz (44:24):

And they said, "We get it.”

Mark Canton (44:25):

They said, "We get it. " So there was a lot of infighting between John and Peter. It worked out. It was great. My deal was amazing that Jake made. I could pretty much call the shots because they couldn't really make this committee anything without me wanting to do it. And if they didn't do what I wanted to do, they were gonna spend a fucking shitload of overhead because it was gonna be a stalemate. And you can't have a stalemate when your job is to justify the overhead by actually making the slate of movies. Fair place.

(44:54):

So the first thing that happened is that Peter and I went to New York to meet the Japanese at the Philip Johnson building, which was then the Sony building and Tommy Mottola and Donny Ienner and all the guys from the record company were there and we had a dinner at a place called the Quilted Giraffe. It was a hot restaurant for the moment. And the Japanese guys at dinner, I'm sitting like as far as from Peter as you are, we're looking at each other and the Japanese guys, because they had made Hook, which was no great- Steve of you. But they had done very well. And the guy looks at me and he goes, "Ah, Canton son, you make only the hits." And Peter crawls on the table and kicks me like, "Don't answer this fucking guy. Whatever you do, don't answer." On the way back to the St. Regis down the block, Peter puts his arm around me and he goes, "What were you gonna say?" I said, "I was gonna say, ah, Idellsan, if I could only make the hits, what the fuck do I need you for?" So we come back- <laugh> ... Now I'm in my offices. They build out the offices. Peter's into one, I'm in the other. We're like gigantic conference, like fantastic. I hired Lucy again three days a week. Oh. The greatest executives, Stephanie Elaine. I mean, Barry Josephson- It's the greatest. ... was my man. I made him president of production. Michael Nathanson was there when I got there and he couldn't wait and sent me the presidential gavel.

Kevin Goetz (46:24):

So you put a great team together.

Mark Canton (46:26):

I had the most amazing. Lisa Henson became the first woman president and that was genius and she was genius.

Kevin Goetz (46:33):

Was Amy with you then? 

Mark Canton (46:33):

Amy worked at the end and- So

Kevin Goetz (46:36):

Did Ange Giannetti, Right? 

Mark Canton (46:37):

Yes. And was like the assistant.

Kevin Goetz (46:39):

Exactly. And I was doing every one of your movies.

Mark Canton (46:42):

You did every movie and you always told me, "You're gona fail if you don't follow me. " And I went, "Okay, I'm gonn follow you. "

Kevin Goetz (46:47):

Oh, come on, Mark. That's very sweet, but not true.

Mark Canton (46:50):

So basically the first movie I greenlit was Age of Innocence. I remember them coming into me and they go like, "Mark."

Kevin Goetz (47:01):

We gotta test this thing, Mark.

Mark Canton (47:02):

Right. And you came here to make Batman and Superman and Spider-Man and- <laugh> And I said to them- you're making age of this. I got guys. It's Marty Scorsese. Squissey. Okay? I did Goodfellas at Warner Brothers in the 80s. Like, I don't give a shit. There's Marty Scorsese and Jay Moloney, the late Jay Moloney, gave it to me, the script.

Kevin Goetz (47:22):

Okay, so now there's a test screening

Mark Canton (47:23):

Scheduled. Right. 

Kevin Goetz (47:24):

He makes the movie.

Mark Canton (47:25):

Right. And we go- 

Kevin Goetz (47:26):

And where do you go, Mark?

Mark Canton (47:27):

... to New Jersey, to a bowling alley.

Kevin Goetz (47:29):

What the fuck did we ...

Mark Canton (47:30):

What did we do, man?

Kevin Goetz (47:32):

Why did we go there? And John Dolgen- But there was a reason why. I don't remember it.

Mark Canton (47:35):

I don't remember it either, but I

Kevin Goetz (47:36):

Do- Oh my God. But you are in a bowl- It was a

Mark Canton (47:38):

Mistake. It was the wrong place. It

Kevin Goetz (47:40):

Was Fort Lee or something, right? 

Mark Canton (47:41):

They brought us to the wrong place. 

Kevin Goetz (47:44):

That Bowling alley is the anchors place in this mall.

Mark Canton (47:48):

And Mark is like, flipping out. The most sophisticated movie in the history of Hollywood. Yeah.

Kevin Goetz (47:51):

And Mark is flipping out and Marty's flipping out.

Mark Canton (47:53):

Right. Marty flipped out and took me in the room with Jay Cox and then I said to Jay Cox, "Listen, I know what we need to do, but the first thing we need to do is get out of here, okay? Because this is not, like, we're in the wrong place." And Marty doesn't do previews. And to do this, because when Mark- Mark can't- ... Had to say,

Kevin Goetz (48:12):

"You gotta do this, Marty." Right.

Mark Canton (48:13):

There's a lot on the line here. I did. So I had it to happen twice, because Luc Besson came and we did fifth element in the professional and the professional, we had a screening and at the end of the screening, Luc Besson, who's now one of my dearest friends, they did not like the movie and they did not like the end. You were there.

Kevin Goetz (48:31):

With Little Natalie Portman.

Mark Canton (48:32):

Right. And Jean Reno, which came one of the five greatest movies I've ever been involved with.

Kevin Goetz (48:37):

I love that movie

Mark Canton (48:38):

And Luc said, blah, blah, blah. And Luke, I said, I said, "Listen, you have two choices. You're gonn either make the fucking changes or I'm gonna release it in two screens." He made every change. The movie is- It was huge.

Kevin Goetz (48:51):

It went up huge.

Mark Canton (48:52):

Huge and historic. It's ... 

Kevin Goetz (48:56):

All I ever say is- So you don't listen to me. You listen to yourself.

Mark Canton (48:57):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (48:57):

Good for you.

Mark Canton (48:58):

Of course.

Kevin Goetz (48:59):

Tell me about the bowling alley. Didn't that end up scoring really well?

Mark Canton (49:04):

It scored well, but John Dolgen, you remember Dolgen came with us.

Kevin Goetz (49:07):

My bud.

Mark Canton (49:08):

Now, John Dolgen was my partner.

Kevin Goetz (49:09):

Why you did a partner-

Mark Canton (49:10):

He was my partner. He was the head of business. He had a stroke and died.

Kevin Goetz (49:14):

One of the brightest guys I've ever met in our business.

Mark Canton (49:15):

In history, ever. But he would shut his blinds at nine in the morning smoking cigarettes and because his whole mantra was his father was like a labor union organizer and his whole context was, "We're not here to have fun. We're here to, like, whatever." So-

Kevin Goetz (49:33):

And

Mark Canton (49:33):

He was just beat him the truth.

Kevin Goetz (49:35):

Never tried to handle it.

Mark Canton (49:35):

He stood in my way, but then we went on and we broke within no time. Every record in the history of domestic cinema. We had the biggest year in history from Jerry McGuire to my best friend's wedding, Bad Boys, Air Force One. All of these movies happened, but we made over the course of time we kept breaking every record and then I got skewered for making cable guy.

Kevin Goetz (50:04):

And you, you got skewed in large measure because ... First of all, I want to say one thing before we go to Cable Guy, I just want to make a point that even though we were in a bowling alley and bung fuck- Right. Jersey, and I'm a Jersey boy, so I can-

Mark Canton (50:17):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (50:17):

... I could say that. The audience still really responded to the picture.

Mark Canton (50:21):

No question.

Kevin Goetz (50:22):

But it was a lesson also. Of course. Like, there are no real, really wrong audiences. So Cable Guy, you got shit a lot because you ended up paying more than-

Mark Canton (50:31):

17 Million. I thought it was Jim Carry. $17 million to Jim Carrey.

Kevin Goetz (50:36):

But I'm saying they all, the industry was up your ass because you raised the ante for every other movie star.

Mark Canton (50:42):

I did. Look, first of all, Bob and Terry at that point, I was now the competitor. I was the enemy. So I always believed that that came from there because the truth is, what do you think they were already guaranteeing Clint Eastwood or Arnold Schwarzenegger or Sylvester Stallone? $20 million. You think that those guys- 

Kevin Goetz (51:01):

It was just about to happen.

Mark Canton (51:02):

You got the- This was the new generation. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kevin Goetz (51:06):

It was about to happen and you got the press.

Mark Canton (51:07):

I would have done it again. Today I would do it. I thought Jim Carey was fantastic and that movie- 

Kevin Goetz (51:12):

Did the movie ever make money?

Mark Canton (51:13):

Made 36 million dollars. To this day, that's what Sony made from this movie. And it spawned onto the world. Don't forget Ben Stiller.

Kevin Goetz (51:23):

Ben Stiller.

Mark Canton (51:23):

Ben Stiller directed the movie. The movie was written by Judd Apatow. Let, let's remember this. It was the first breakout movie for Jack Black, Owen Wilson. The list goes on and on and on and the only reason the movie wasn't a huge hit because the ending was dark because Jim wanted to be impaled on the thing. But the thing about it is-

Kevin Goetz (51:47):

You would have fought to have a changed ending.

Mark Canton (51:49):

I would have changed ending- 

Kevin Goetz (51:50):

Where you Are today.

Mark Canton (51:51):

I would have changed.

Kevin Goetz (51:51):

I know that.

Mark Canton (51:52):

But remember, change is not often- Yeah. ... only one person. I went through it with Mike Nichols on Wolf with Jack Nicholson where we had Michelle Pfeiffer and Jack and that movie is a perfect movie till the last five minutes. I went to Mike Nichols. This is a sort of a good encapsulation of being late today. I make a meeting with Mike Nichols because I wanted to change the ending. I give him $2 million to change the ending of the movie. Oh. He had final cut. He's Mike Nichols. I ain't Mike Nichols. His wife, I get Diane Sawyer to tell him to change the ending. He don't change the ending. I come to the meeting two hours late. He makes me a pillow. He goes back to Nantucket and makes me a pillow that says Mark is on the way. I still, I have it on a chair at home.

(52:45):

I send him a pillow that says Mike will fix the ending. <laugh>

Kevin Goetz (52:48):

Okay. This is true. Mark never showed up on time.

Mark Canton (52:52):

Right, right.

Kevin Goetz (52:52):

And-

Mark Canton (52:53):

Right.

Kevin Goetz (52:53):

Mike never fixed the ending.

Mark Canton (52:55):

Didn't fix it. <laugh> We go to the White House, we show the movie to Clinton. We spend the night at the White House. Some people went and smoked a joint in the, in one of the outside areas I can't say, but, but I was with Jack and Diane and blah, blah, blah. <laugh> And the Clintons. But that was another ... Listen, there are a lot of decisions that constantly have to be made. There are solutions that constantly have to be lived with.

Kevin Goetz (53:23):

Well, as you said, Mark, you have no regrets,

Mark Canton (53:25):

Really. No regrets. I mean, what you do as well, you're coming up with solutions that are best serve the facts, you know, long before people were worried about algorithms. It's an artistic endeavor. And the one thing for sure that I stood me well the test of time from day one, loving movies like Kevin Goetz loves movies. I have always thought we all work for the audience. So we gotta figure out- 

Kevin Goetz (53:57):

That's why you say final cut. I love what Tom Rothman says. Who gets final cut? The audience.

Mark Canton (54:01):

Right. The audience.

Kevin Goetz (54:02):

Hey, let me ask you one final question. Yeah. What makes people stay for the long haul in this business in a line or two?

Mark Canton (54:09):

I think we're witnessing it right now with Michael Jackson or Mario. 15 years ago, the music business was dead. No one was going to live performance. There was no avatar shows sphere. Now you have to have people feel emotionally connected to the story, but also you have to have in the experience people feel like it's a live performance. So when you go to Michael Jackson, you feel that you're actually going to a concert and you can get up and- Experiencing it. Like we did when we made Purple Rain, my first ... Remember, I made Purple Rain and Peewee. I'm jamming that into this conversation because that's how I felt about those. When everyone went, this kid is crazy. 

Kevin Goetz (54:57):

Cultural Zeitgeist.

Mark Canton (54:57):

So you need to now- Right? Yes. You need with Prada. When the mother of my children made Prada, she's a genius producer. No matter what the reviews say, they still- It's review proof. Because people wanna see those clothes, man. They wanna see the fashion. They wanna see those women 20 years later. Smell the circus. People think they're actually seeing Michael Jackson and they're in a movie theater. And then they realize, oh, this is where I get the milk duds and the popcorn. So they're having an experience that is- Transformative. ... transformative well said again rather than sitting at home and just watching a movie on whatever size screen or not because- Sure. ... they go to sports, they go to live concerts because-

Kevin Goetz (55:48):

They want to be-

Mark Canton (55:49):

In a communal experience.

Kevin Goetz (55:51):

And really be part of something. Right. Mark Canton, showman, raconteur, brilliant executive and producer and- Thank you. ... and a mensch on top of it all. Thank you. 

Mark Canton (56:04):

I now have a granddaughter. The most adorable.

Kevin Goetz (56:06):

Dorothy, Your dear Dorothy. 

Mark Canton (56:06):

My granddaughter, Lennon.

Kevin Goetz (56:09):

Her name is Lennon.

Mark Canton (56:10):

Right. They call her Lenny, but I call her Lennon.

Kevin Goetz (56:12):

And now the new love of your life is drum roll.

Mark Canton (56:15):

Alexandra Renee Scott Canton. She's just fantastic human and has brought wellness to my being.

Kevin Goetz (56:23):

Mm. Let's have Emile, the four of us-

Mark Canton (56:26):

She's in Costa Rica this week doing wellness while you and I are here trying to figure out how the fuck we get from Burbank to Culver City in 40 minutes.

Kevin Goetz (56:35):

I love you, Mark Canton.

Mark Canton (56:36):

I love you too.

Kevin Goetz (56:39):

To our listeners, I hope you enjoy this conversation. For more insights into filmmaking, audience testing, and the business of Hollywood, I invite you to check out my books, Audienceology, and How to Score in Hollywood at Amazon, or through my website at kevingoetz360.com. You can also follow me on my social media. Next time on Don't Kill the Messenger, I'll welcome seasoned entrepreneurs, Jeff Annison and Paul Scanlan, founders of Legion M, the world's first fan-owned entertainment company. Until then, I'm Kevin Goetz, and to you, our listeners, I appreciate you being part of the movie-making process. Your opinions matter.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Mark Canton
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Kari Campano, and Nick Nunez
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)